OEM LSU OEM wideband applications

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russian
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OEM LSU OEM wideband applications

Post by russian » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:21 am

A few cars use windband sensors right from the factory.

https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/bos ... ty.501754/ hints at 2012 Toyota Tacoma

Also based on info from the above link I see

Denso 234-5102
2009 and newer VAG

Denso 234-5137
OEM Number: 0258017018
MERCEDES-BENZ 2006 and newer
Sprinter 2003 and newer

Denso 234-5125
VAG 2006 and newer

Denso 234-5136
BMW v8 v12 2006+
MINI S 2007+

todo: go over more part numbers from the
Denso:
- 234-5116
- 234-5119
- 234-5125
- 234-5139

NTK (made by NGK):
- 24315

AC Delco (high possibility exists that they are made by Denso):
- 213-3934
- 213-3936

list

also go over original Bosch part numbers


Open question which vehicles at http://www.wegotused.com/hazleton-inventory/ have it :)
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Re: OEM LSU OEM wideband applications

Post by mck1117 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:38 am

Most Ford products that either had a facelift, new body, new engine, etc post 2010-ish have a Bosch LSU 4.9. They're all varying part numbers due to mostly different length cables, but they're mostly the same sensor.

Looks like trucks have two widebands post-2009, Focus/Fusion/Escape have one post-2013.

Pretty much everything in the past 10 years with a turbo should have a wideband.

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Re: OEM LSU OEM wideband applications

Post by russian » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:08 am

mck1117 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:38 am
Looks like trucks have two widebands post-2009, Focus/Fusion/Escape have one post-2013.
2010-2012 Ford Fusion Oxygen Sensor Upstream
2012-2014 Ford Focus L4 2.0L
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Re: OEM LSU OEM wideband applications

Post by russian » Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:37 am

How does one distinguish LSU 4.2 from LSU 4.9? Do I understand that connectors are different between 4.2 and 4.9? https://wbo2.com/cable/lsuconns.htm kind of seem to say that?

Ford 43878MD has 10 inches on cable
VAG sensors have about 25 inches of cable, up to 32.

Fun fact - VAG electronic throttle connector is the same connector as WBO, Ford and Vag mate to each. Harness side clips looks differently - Ford is easier to unclip in my opinion.

On the picture I believe 2005 Passat is on the left, 2006+ VAG in the middle and Ford Focus 2012-2014 on the right.
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Re: OEM LSU OEM wideband applications

Post by russian » Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:16 pm

https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/49.php tell us that 25mm (1 inch) connector is 4.9 while 35mm (1 3/8 inch) is 4.2

Now I need to get a 4.9 cable for my innovate I guess.
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Re: OEM LSU OEM wideband applications

Post by OrchardPerformance » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:11 pm

If I remember right then the LSU 4.2 is a 4 wire sensor and the LSU 4.9 is 5 wire.

The sensor in the center of your picture is the classic 4.9 body, the ford one looks to be customized a little.

I believe all BMW applications after the N52 engine are LSU4.9 sensors as standard. So that is ~2004 onwards.
Infact I think the N52 has 4 in total, 1 for the front 3 cylinders and one for the pack three and a pair of post cat ones!

I think all VW TFSI engines are 4.9 sensors, the ones I have here are: LS 17012 0 258 017 012
They have a nice pretty long cable with a heat protector around the first part of the cable.

There is a "diesel version" but experience has said they are near identical, it is just the housing is adjusted a bit for the lower exhaust temps of a diesel, you can use them further from the engine in a petrol just fine as long as your in a colder area of the exhaust.
These are used on most VW vans and I think the Ford 2.2 diesel engine (2014 onward)

If you start using the 4.9 with the innovate then put it on a separate switch that you can turn on after firing up the engine or you can kill the sensors pretty easy.

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Re: OEM LSU OEM wideband applications

Post by mck1117 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:34 am

I think there are very few, if any, OE applications for the LSU 4.2. It requires periodic calibration in free air, which is a no-go for OEMs. What do the connectors look like on those three sensors you grabbed? The connector is the dead giveaway.

I think all three of those are 4.9. The left one is an LSU 4.9D, which is the same as a regular LSU 4.9 but better shielded for soot prevention (D = diesel). The center is a "normal" LSU 4.9. And I know the mk3 focus wideband is a 4.9, so that must be a custom Ford shroud on a 4.9.

Because of the limited support (and OEM availability) and general crappiness of the LSU 4.2, I'm tempted to not support it. Even buying a brand new sensor isn't expensive, they're only ~$60 on Amazon.

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Re: OEM LSU OEM wideband applications

Post by russian » Wed Jan 30, 2019 5:43 am

OrchardPerformance wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:11 pm
If using the 4.9 with the innovate then put it on a separate switch that you can turn on after firing up the engine or you can kill the sensors pretty easy.
Please elaborate. So you are saying powering these on while engine is not running is killing them? Are we talking 10 seconds? 60 seconds? 600 seconds?
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Re: OEM LSU OEM wideband applications

Post by OrchardPerformance » Wed Jan 30, 2019 2:09 pm

Powering them without the engine running is ok provided you do not start the engine.

As soon as they are powered the ceramic bit gets hot, when the engine starts its likely to put out some condensed water, if that hits the sensor they go pop.
All depends on the heating strategy how fast it heats up and how long it needs to be on before thermal shock is possible.

The Innovative is bad for this as they can warm the sensors up before engine start and I am led to believe their heating control is not the best.
The LSU4.9 can exaggerate this as it is a thinner ceramic element than the 4.2, no fault of the sensor really, just more sensitive to thermal shock.

For this exact reason I have just killed a couple of sensors after switching to a set of long tube headers which seem to condensate a lot before the merge where the sensor is.
My fix for now is to start the engine and then switch the Innovate on.

I only stress this point as I have learned the expensive way that it is actually instant sensor death.

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Re: OEM LSU OEM wideband applications

Post by kb1gtt » Wed Jan 30, 2019 6:02 pm

Is there a way to roughly measure the exhaust temp with the LSU 4.9? Could we some how measure temperature then only turn on once the exhaust has already exceeded something like 200F (100C) ish? I know we control to a temperature, but I don't recall if we access to the temperature when cold. I think that's a SPI function for the CJ125. Does the CJ125 report some kind of temperature when cold?

It would be cool is we could add logic to rusEFI which says, do not turn on heater unless, engine has been running for at least 1 minute, and CJ125 claims temperature is above blah degree's.

I'm in cold weather right now. So humidity issues would take longer than it would for most. So a measured exhaust temp would be a great safety.
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Re: OEM LSU OEM wideband applications

Post by mck1117 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:34 am

I think you could measure exhaust temp with the 4.9, but only if it's hot enough to light off the Nernst cell. The cj125 has no ADC, so it can only detect things like shorts to ground/power and open circuit, along with the analog circuitry that conditions the signal for the MCU's ADC.

The only ways to measure the temperature are via the internal resistance of the Nernst cell, and the resistance of the heater (it's a PTC thermistor).

It's probably plenty to just have a CLT vs. heating start delay table. OE applications don't have any EGT measurement from the sensor or otherwise, and just use an EGT estimation model. A clt vs. delay table is probably plenty accurate.

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Re: OEM LSU OEM wideband applications

Post by russian » Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:23 pm

last post moved to more relevant viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1052&p=33335#p33335 topic
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