who wants to port to Power Architecture?

[AndreyB]

I've just realized that MPC5634M - like the one used in TRK-MPC5634M - has FPU module. And it is 5v.

But it is 80MHz (small issue) and the dev board is $99 and I do not see used pieces on eBay (huge issue)

Anyway, if anyone would want to port rusEfi to Power Architecture this should not be as bad since this architecture is supported by ChibiOS

[kb1gtt]

o5e is for the 5634 and might function as a reference in how to configure the chip an such. Beware there is a highly polluted version of o5e out there. Also ST has an equiv chip. Turns out some OEM's want to multi-source, so ST has the same chip, but with their name and their fabs making the chip. I hear there is a Discovery board that uses this ST version of the chip. However the person I know who was offered a chance to get one of these discovery boards, wasn't interested as there isn't a low cost usable eTPU compiler. The FreeScale crank decoder sucks on real world signals with real world jitter. With out a compiler for the TPU's, this is just a 80MHz PPC.

[abecedarian]

I don't see a 'port' as viable without a whole bunch of abstractions made. The MPC5**** hardware is substantially different from ARM; MPC provides peripherals ARM doesn't.

I'll be honest too, and say the MPC5634M TRK board offers up things Jon, Mark and Jared, as developers, they weren't taking advantage of, things like the system basis / watchdog chips and such.
If they get integrated, later, maybe not such a bad thing but I didn't see someone trying to do something with what they have, and instead were ignoring the support chips.

I'll offer up my TRK-MPC5634M kit for this endeavor, but I do expect some sort of reciprocal, such as the user pays for shipping, eventually leading something more which we can discuss later.

[kb1gtt]

Beware the MCZ33905 chip on that 5634 board. The datasheet for it was absolute garbage. Jon and I got that mostly working such that we could use CAN off that board. We made a mock up version of CTU. CTU allowed the tuning software to run a serial stream to the PC com port, which was the FTDI chip connected to an ARM with CAN, known as CTU. Then CTU would form packets and send them via CAN to the 5634 board. It was working well with out off the shelf devices. However we kind of lost interest when I got to prove the 5634 eTPU Freescale provided code is garbage. It's been a while, but I seem to recall that MCZ33905 was also the watch dog, which I seem to recall was a fair part of the issues with that chip. We only looked at it long enough to get CAN packets to pass.

Best chances I've seen of a multi core processor with a low cost / free compiler is the Beagle Bone Black, which has an assembler only for the PRU's. However it's a bit pricey compared to several other options.

[jedediah_frey]

Is there a reason you picked that devboard?

ST has a few Discovery boards that are as cheap and cover the spectrum of functionality.



SPC56A-Discovery $89.37
SPC56L-Discovery $125.44
SPC56M-Discovery $89.37

But until GCC/Clang support the TPUs it's not worth much.

I can't find many spec sheets on car OEMs but I did find this:

http://pdf.cat.com/cda/files/127438/9/reliable.pdf

Looks like either the MPC555 @ 40 MHz or MPC561 @ 56 MHz.

[AndreyB]

Looks like ST boards are 12Mhz, 12Mhz and 40Mhz. The Freescale board is a slightly better deal but I agree there is not much difference.

I am still confused on the GCC compiler pricing.

SPC5Studio includes Hightec GNU "C" compiler, with a 30-days full free trial license.

So which part of it is not free - the SPC5Studio or the compiler?

[jedediah_frey]

Looks like ST boards are 12Mhz, 12Mhz and 40Mhz.

The ST boards have 12, 12 and 40 MHz crystals. The STM32F4-Discovery board only has an 8 MHz crystal.

So which part of it is not free - the SPC5Studio or the compiler?

In one of the documents the parenthesis help:

• SPC5Studio (includes Hightec GNU “C” compiler, with a 30-days full free trial license)

Meaning after 30 days you'll need to find a new compiler. I also don't know if that compiler includes functions for the TPU. You can compile for the SPC

[AndreyB]

The ST boards have 12, 12 and 40 MHz crystals. The STM32F4-Discovery board only has an 8 MHz crystal.

I have never claimed I am the sharpest pencil in the box What CPU speeds are these?

I believe someone has mentioned that eTPUs are so simple they do not have C compilers, they are programmed in assembler. But these might be just rumors

[jedediah_frey]

The ST boards have 12, 12 and 40 MHz crystals. The STM32F4-Discovery board only has an 8 MHz crystal.

I have never claimed I am the sharpest pencil in the box What CPU speeds are these?

L - 120 MHz
A - 150 MHz
C - 120 MHz

I believe someone has mentioned that eTPUs are so simple they do not have C compilers, they are programmed in assembler. But these might be just rumors

http://www.bytecraft.com/eTPU_C
http://cache.freescale.com/files/32bit/doc/app_note/AN2864.pdf

This is actually a good read:
http://www.idsc.ethz.ch/Courses/embedded_control_systems/Exercises/Lab2_Intro_ETH11.pdf

Actually his whole course is a very good read. I may have to dedicate a weekend to going through all of his lectures
http://www.idsc.ethz.ch/Courses/embedded_control_systems/Exercises/

[kb1gtt]

About the Freescale board and why it was chosen as the reference dev board, I think that was simply a first to market issue. There are several of us out here with them already.

I believe the best approach as it stands now is to use one of the A20 chips eventually Olimex will release this SOM at a reasonably low price. http://olimex.wordpress.com/2013/09/04/a20-som-eur-35-dual-core-cortex-a7-at-1ghz-prototypes-complete/ For now, it can be purchased for a higher price on a larger board with more stuff found here https://www.olimex.com/Products/OLinuXino/A20/

I believe that with those boards, you simply compile two separate single core arm projects, then place one at say memory locations 0h0000 and the other at locations 0h8000 or what something like that, then turn it on and they both start executing code. They also have Linux / Android OS'es for reference that use the multi core platform. So for that kind of chip, i believe a normal GCC will suffice. However I don't know anyone that has done it, so I don't know for sure and could be mistaken.

[jedediah_frey]

I believe the best approach as it stands now is to use one of the A20 chips eventually Olimex will release this SOM at a reasonably low price.

Looking at the specs on that it doesn't look at all like a good MCU. It looks more like a good general processing computer.

http://www.allwinnertech.com/en/product/A20.html

x264 decoding, HDMI, Android, etc. It seems to lack PWM, external interrupts.

And until a free (or much cheaper than $2,400) compiler is available for the TPU on the Power series (Freescale or STM) then Power really doesn't bring much to the table over ARM.

[abecedarian]

I'll offer up my TRK-MPC5634M kit for this endeavor, but I do expect some sort of reciprocal, such as the user pays for shipping, eventually leading something more which we can discuss later.

Tell me more? I would pay for shipping and I would promise to pass this board to whoever would need it more than I if one pays for shipping

Basically, what I said.
Pay for shipping and one can play with it. If they choose to keep it, we can work out something in trade; either a small cash sum or something else worthwhile, but it would definitely be less than buying one outright from Freescale.

[kb1gtt]

I can sweeten the deal by offering the IO board I made. I blew my TRK board so much of it doesn't work correctly any more. However if you get a good dev board....

The A20 does lack several peripherals. I'm not so worried about things like PWM with a GHz processor, there's plenty of room for that in software. If you have PWM, you have DAC. However ADC would be handy and that's a bit harder to obtain. I would probably look for something like the quickfilter chip for the ADC. http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/QF4A512A-LQ-B/686-1002-ND/1284177 After that most everything is digital signals.

[AndreyB]

The A20 does lack several peripherals. I'm not so worried about things like PWM with a GHz processor

Since A* is more a CPU than a MPU ChibiOS has little interest in supporting it Making real time linux is maybe possible - not sure - but that scales me, linux is a bunch of stuff from different eras so I have no idea where we would get support for a linux-based real time thing. QNX or something but again that is a huge unknown. i guess my line of thinking is that ChibiOS works really well for us because of the combination of HAL (Hardware Abstraction Layer) and the amazing support they provide (meaning the guy behind ChibiOS, I have no idea if he ever sleeps or how he find the time). So, it would need to be one of supported architectures

[abecedarian]

I can sweeten the deal by offering the IO board I made. I blew my TRK board so much of it doesn't work correctly any more. However if you get a good dev board....

My dev board works fine, only plugged in once, and I gave up after having issues with GIT and Windows 8.

[AndreyB]

On the other side, before we port anything anywhere we need to have something worth porting. rusEfi still has a long way to go to universal, user-friendly or just useable. I think it is actually harmful to spend too much time thinking about porting at this point. At this point, it seems like we are close to something cool - there are probably ten to 15 guys with these stm32f4discovery boards on this forum. I hope that this would be enough of the critical mass to take off a functional & useful project - but we are not exactly there yet. So, I think that the benefit of having some community on the same stm32f4 page overweight the minor discomfort of the 3v or the lame temperature range.

Implementing the whole thing is a major project so a bit of compromise would increase the changes of getting some result eventually.

[abecedarian]

What's funny is you started this topic about porting to Power and now you're posting against doing that.

[AndreyB]

OMG, I guess this makes me a less then perfect human

[AndreyB]

Got some SPC5643LF2MLQ1 samples from Freescale today...

[kb1gtt]

How hard do we expect it to be, to use the PPC platform under chibios? Is that just a #define thing and your done?

[AndreyB]

If these are the right members of the PPC family (not any would work), it would be close to a #define kind of thing. But that's one day.

[puff]

ppc - powerpc? motorola(ibm) processor used in old macintoshes?

[kb1gtt]

Yup, that is correct. About the PPC thing. Same architecture.

[abecedarian]

Well, my offer still stands for the TRK-MPC5634M eval kit. I don't see me using it for anything any time soon, if ever. So, I'd preferentially choose to sell it than donate it, but I can be persuaded.

[AndreyB]

Would you consider listing it on eBay? If not, I would happily pay $20

I hope that MPC5634M processor is a member of the MPC563xM family, which according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_5000#MPC56xx is same as as SPC563M which according to http://forum.chibios.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1639 is supported by ChibiOS. So, my plan would be to start ChibiOS and make rusEfi work on both platforms.

[Nobody]

Would you consider listing it on eBay? If not, I would happily pay $20

I hope that MPC5634M processor is a member of the MPC563xM family, which according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_5000#MPC56xx is same as as SPC563M which according to http://forum.chibios.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1639 is supported by ChibiOS. So, my plan would be to start ChibiOS and make rusEfi work on both platforms.

LOL you just don’t get it! According to “kb1gtt” the TPU is GARAGE and everything needs to be rewritten, in spite of millions of applications that say otherwise…

To further quote “kb1gtt” you have “blah” factor, not to be confused with real empirical data. So any attempt to apply something resembling factual data will result in a “blah”… So with a “blah” you get “blah”.

Flat out because of “blah” and some more “blah” followed by more “blah”… Well you get it, because of “blah” it just can’t work.

“Blah”, “blah” and some more “blah”…

Think “kbigtt” made his point, don’t waste your time, it’s predisposed to failure. “Blah” and more “blah”.

Sorry that was bad, but sums it up

[abecedarian]

Would you consider listing it on eBay? If not, I would happily pay $20

I hope that MPC5634M processor is a member of the MPC563xM family, which according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC_5000#MPC56xx is same as as SPC563M which according to http://forum.chibios.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1639 is supported by ChibiOS. So, my plan would be to start ChibiOS and make rusEfi work on both platforms.

Best I can tell, those are similar platforms. What's going to be important would be the core, e200z3 in the case of the 5634M, and the peripheral set. The different cores support different instructions though they have a substantial common base. Also, the TRK board sports the 33905 system basis chip that, if I remember correctly, handles CAN / LIN communications, power, CPU watchdog and failsafe stuff so that might make ChibiOS a fun handful.

And I'm sorry, but $20 is a bit low. I might consider half-price, i.e. $45, + shipping, or something that approaches that amount in trade. Ebay could be an option but it would have a similar reserve set with additional considerations for export restrictions, per the EULA.

Now, if you would help design the board and port RUSEFI to P8X32A (8 core multi-processor) for 2-4 cylinders, I might be open to more discussion.

As for what NOBODY said... I'm trying to separate the sarcasm from the factuals.

[kb1gtt]

@russian, If you pick it up and start playing with the TRK5634 board, I can offer some insight into chips like the MCZ33905S5EK which includes several features like CAN and watch dog. Getting that chip to work should have been a simple task, but FS has garbage documentation, so it was significantly difficult. Jon and I had that board communicating with it's on-board CAN to a TS on a PC. Basically we created a USB to CAN interface known as CTU originally drafted by essess, this registered as a COM port on a PC, which TS can connect to. The COM messages were sent via CAN to the TRK board, and the CAN messaged were decoded by that MCZ33905S5EK chip and sent to the 5634 as a serial stream which was just like TS was connected locally.

As well I have a KICAD module for one of the 5634 chips, so it shouldn't be very hard to make a brain board that uses that core chip. I'm assuming the ST copy of this chip has the same pin out and such. I understand the ST chip is literally a copy, as many OEM's require multi-sourcing a component to ensure stability in a product's MFG cycle. Apparently FS got ST to be that second source. So they should both be the same.

My cautions about developing with that 5634 chip are as you know about the compiler for the ETPU. The FS provided code doesn't work in the real world very well, it's does not play nice with engines that have a large change in crank angle per rotation like a single cyl. It would work better with an engine with a heavy flywheel or lots of inertia to dampen the short term variations in RPM. Also the FS provided code is only for wheels like a 36-1, and does not support 36-1-2 or any other wheel. So you are very limited in what engines you can use with that FS provided example. The ETPU can be programmed in pure assembly, or you can get the ImageCraft compiler for around $4k.

I also have a functional IO board, err, I may have given that away already. If worst comes to worst and I can't find the assembled IO board, I have a IO board design that I've already assembled and I have done basic testing with it. The only real issue it had was that I would make the ignition driver external, as those DPAK's made more heat than I expected. I would change to that hi/lo driver chip and use an external ignition driver.

[AndreyB]

I simply do not plan to use etpu, just the main chip. By the way, is the etpu a physical external chip, or a cp-processor inside the same package?

[abecedarian]

I simply do not plan to use etpu, just the main chip. By the way, is the etpu a physical external chip, or a cp-processor inside the same package?

eTPU is on the 5634 die.
Here's the schematic for the TRK board.

In my opinion the eTPU is the only compelling reason to use the 5634M. Well that and the butt load of ADC, GPIO and comms.