Closed Loop idle issues
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Closed Loop idle issues
so not sure what the go is but cannot get any sort of decent idle, I ether have to set a manual tps value and deal with fluctuating rpm or setting closed loop makes timing go retarded (idle at neg 10?) and trys to close the tb.
I set parameters for both open and closed loop as it doesn't go into closed loop straight away and refuses to stay running without both (or so it seems) very confusing and not sure what I'm doing wrong.
here is the link to my tune https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=494
I set parameters for both open and closed loop as it doesn't go into closed loop straight away and refuses to stay running without both (or so it seems) very confusing and not sure what I'm doing wrong.
here is the link to my tune https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=494
Last edited by Simon@FutureProof on Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Minor readability edit
Reason: Minor readability edit
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
Your problem is you are commanding negative timing values by putting negative values in the idle advance table.
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
you'll have to explain further. I don't have enough information to understand what numbers I'm supposed to put into some tables, there isnt any specification on what setting can only take positive or what can take both
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
It also looks like you are trying to combine an incorrect idle advance table with the closed loop ignition timing. Thus the firmware is struggling to cope.
Problems I can see instantly:
Advance needs to be positive, try the values in the table below. Your idle deadzone is set to 950rpm. This will disable the closed loop when the RPM is within 950rpm of the 1200 target. Literally it will stop the closed loop working from 250rpm to 2150rmp.
This needs to be dropped to something like 50 rpm, it is intended to stop over active idle corrections when close to the target.
My sugestion is that you turn off the closed loop timing adjustment and get it to idle normally with just the idle air adjustment and the "separate advance table for idle".
Once that is stable then try getting the closed loop timing to work on top.
Problems I can see instantly:
Advance needs to be positive, try the values in the table below. Your idle deadzone is set to 950rpm. This will disable the closed loop when the RPM is within 950rpm of the 1200 target. Literally it will stop the closed loop working from 250rpm to 2150rmp.
This needs to be dropped to something like 50 rpm, it is intended to stop over active idle corrections when close to the target.
My sugestion is that you turn off the closed loop timing adjustment and get it to idle normally with just the idle air adjustment and the "separate advance table for idle".
Once that is stable then try getting the closed loop timing to work on top.
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
Just to note here, the ignition timing tables are advance tables.
They dictate the amount of degrees the ECU will advance the spark timing before TDC.
If you put positive values you get advance and timing will be BTDC, Negative values are ignition retard and cause the spark to be after TDC.
This is true for all ignition advance tables.
They dictate the amount of degrees the ECU will advance the spark timing before TDC.
If you put positive values you get advance and timing will be BTDC, Negative values are ignition retard and cause the spark to be after TDC.
This is true for all ignition advance tables.
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
see that information right there is what ive needed the whole time. I would never have been able to figure out how the hell that table is meant to be filled out, how does the table correct for over rpm tho? thats what i don't understand, or is it more just rpm/ignition table with idle adjusted with tb? because the tb does not move for load. fans will kick on and itll just drop to 600 rpm
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
yeah i do understand advance and retard but I'm not very experienced with tuner studio and seeing as al the tables here are customised i wasnt sure how they were codedOrchardPerformance wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:17 pmJust to note here, the ignition timing tables are advance tables.
They dictate the amount of degrees the ECU will advance the spark timing before TDC.
If you put positive values you get advance and timing will be BTDC, Negative values are ignition retard and cause the spark to be after TDC.
This is true for all ignition advance tables.
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
Having the idle VE and timing tables populated with some sort of base in the stock tunes would be helpful. When you are given basically a blank graph, its hard to know which way to go.
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
exactly!! there is buggar all factory stuff that i can find so everything feels like guess work and i hate it lolBeerMoneyMotorsports wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:33 pmHaving the idle VE and timing tables populated with some sort of base in the stock tunes would be helpful. When you are given basically a blank graph, its hard to know which way to go.
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
Have you looked at similar engines on rusEFI.com/online?
While not all of the maps are perfect or ideal for your engine they will give an idea of what you might need to do for yours.
While not all of the maps are perfect or ideal for your engine they will give an idea of what you might need to do for yours.
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
i have looked a little. How can i tell if the tune i am looking at is actually a working tune and not just something that was uploaded needing help?
Ultimately we need to have a solid base tune for all users to get started with ALONG with proper descriptions in Tuner Studio.
Ultimately we need to have a solid base tune for all users to get started with ALONG with proper descriptions in Tuner Studio.
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
@Boostonabudget do you have any suggestions for correcting the wording to make more sense?
Reading over your issue, the first thing that comes to mind is adding "width" to the idle deadzone field.
Reading over your issue, the first thing that comes to mind is adding "width" to the idle deadzone field.
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
Here's the tune from my car. I don't use any closed loop airflow idle, only closed loop timing, because that's all it needed. https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=495
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
I wasn't even aware it said width. My assumption was that it's target rpm lol.dbh97 wrote:@Boostonabudget do you have any suggestions for correcting the wording to make more sense?
Reading over your issue, the first thing that comes to mind is adding "width" to the idle deadzone field.
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
Ill have a go through your tune and compare bits. You seem to be having way more luck than memck1117 wrote:Here's the tune from my car. I don't use any closed loop airflow idle, only closed loop timing, because that's all it needed. https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=495
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
problem identified
please read the tooltips
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
have up,loaded a new tune with the information i have been given, its definitely better but no were close to what i want, tries to idel at positive 16 now and hunts, any help?
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=201
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=202
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=201
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=202
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
Can you ID which tune was used for those logs? There is now 6 tunes in there and it's hard to ID which one is correct.
Going by the ID on the log your idle is still messed up as you have not corrected the things highlighted already in this thread.
Please fix the things we have already pointed out and try again.
Going by the ID on the log your idle is still messed up as you have not corrected the things highlighted already in this thread.
Please fix the things we have already pointed out and try again.
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Re: Closed Loop idle issues
Yeah I can probably do a new log with a new tune file and see if that helps. I'm not sure how to change the Id to seperate logs yet.OrchardPerformance wrote: ↑Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:32 pmCan you ID which tune was used for those logs? There is now 6 tunes in there and it's hard to ID which one is correct.
Going by the ID on the log your idle is still messed up as you have not corrected the things highlighted already in this thread.
Please fix the things we have already pointed out and try again.
Afaik it idles great atm but will upload the latest tune with a log to see what needs to be changed