Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

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NickZ
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Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by NickZ »

I have a BMW M50B20
60/2 crank trigger
1 cam trigger
Injection set in Tuner Studio and wired as Sequential
Coils set in Tuner Studio wired as individual coils.

trigger inputs PC6 and PA5

My understanding is main trigger input is Crank 60/2 PC6
Cam 1 PA5
Screen Shot 2022-04-23 at 10.03.12 am.png
Screen Shot 2022-04-23 at 10.03.12 am.png (152.13 KiB) Viewed 2287 times
ECU will get full sync with only the crank trigger so the engine can be 360 degrees out.
What am i doing wrong?
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AndreyB
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Re: Trigger settings

Post by AndreyB »

NickZ wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 12:06 am
What am i doing wrong?
https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/HOWTO-upload-tune
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Re: Trigger settings

Post by AndreyB »

Let me create a new release candidate since this dialog was a bit simplified recently.
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Re: Trigger settings

Post by AndreyB »

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NickZ
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Re: Trigger settings

Post by NickZ »

Ok, ive updated the firmware, with no change.
Engine will sync without a cam sensor.
uploaded tune file. This is not a standard board, But using STM32F407. Pins are manually configured in TS.
Trigger pins are as standard rusEFI
Crank PC6
Cam PA5
wired and TS Settings, Sequential injection, individual coils.
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=965
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AndreyB
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Re: Trigger settings

Post by AndreyB »

You settings are correct. Please explicitly state what you believe is a problem, at the moment it's hard for me to decipher problem statement.

There is a chance that you are saying "It should not sync without cam sensor but it does?!"

Well, at the moment yes, you have a 50% change of good sync. After a bit you would get a warning "no CAM signals"

For some triggers (not this one) we require Cam/VVT sync.

Technically it could be a user-defined option but to implement a change of making cam sync required we would need a good justification.

Also there was something about cranking in batch/wasted mode in order to start faster.
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Re: Trigger settings

Post by NickZ »

"It should not sync without cam sensor but it does" with Sequential settings

My engine doesn't run good 360 degrees out for ignition.

I would have thought setting Sequential would not sync until it received a valid cycle pulse from the cam.
without the cycle trigger the engine can try and run 360 degrees out.

I know for a semi/batch and wasted spark system this doesn't matter .

I also did check the Cranking setting, I did have simultaneous set for injection, But changing it to Sequential made no difference.

Is there another pre programmed trigger pattern i can use that has 60-2+1 that requires a Cycle pulse to get Sync?
"For some triggers (not this one) we require Cam/VVT sync."

For me, this is a requirement for operation of my engine with its current wiring configuration.
mck1117
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Re: Trigger settings

Post by mck1117 »

Set "enable faster engine spin up" to true on the cranking page. That will run the engine in wasted spark mode until a cam tooth arrives and "resolves" the engine phase.

You can also run the engine in wasted spark mode with "two wire wasted" mode enabled. That will let you run your individual coils in wasted mode. This is totally fine - I endurance race a car with individual coils and no cam sensor whatsoever.
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Re: Trigger settings

Post by AndreyB »

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/4094
mck1117 wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 4:48 am
Set "enable faster engine spin up" to true on the cranking page. That will run the engine in wasted spark mode until a cam tooth arrives and "resolves" the engine phase.
Two potential signals here:

a) should this fact be more disclosed in the tooltip?

b) should be "wasted on cranking until VVT" feature be universal regardless of "enable faster engine spin"? or are we getting to a future where "enable faster engine spin up" is hard-coded to true and is not controllable by users?
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Re: Trigger settings

Post by AndreyB »

NickZ wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:57 am
For me, this is a requirement for operation of my engine with its current wiring configuration.
https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/4065 is one of the ticket which touches this area but you need a bigger change
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Re: Trigger settings

Post by AndreyB »

NickZ wrote:
Sat Apr 23, 2022 3:57 am
For me, this is a requirement for operation of my engine with its current wiring configuration.
https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/4151
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Re: Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by AndreyB »

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/4151 is now done - new option in "advanced trigger" in snapshot
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NickZ
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Re: Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by NickZ »

Thank you for adding this. Looks good on the bench test, will hopefully get time later in the week to run the engine.
mck1117
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Re: Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by mck1117 »

There are some more improvements being made in this area - will keep this thread posted.
NickZ
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Re: Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by NickZ »

So ive run the car with the modification.
Better 80% of the time.
Can i run the injection in a Semi-sequential without changing the sequential wiring? I don't want to run simultaneous, so it will fire pairs of injection?
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Re: Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by mck1117 »

What does "better 80% of the time" mean? Can you take a normal log in tunerstudio of whatever you're seeing, both the "good" and "bad" cases?
NickZ
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Re: Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by NickZ »

well 20% of starts is will push back on the starter when cranking.
But to my last question about the semi-sequential, i just want to get this running and drivable.
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Re: Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by mck1117 »

Logs, dude. There are valuable nuggets in those logs about what's happening when it mis-syncs and kicks back on the starter.
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Re: Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by mck1117 »

NickZ wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 2:43 am
Can i run the injection in a Semi-sequential without changing the sequential wiring? I don't want to run simultaneous, so it will fire pairs of injection?
Injection isn't your problem. Injection phase largely doesn't matter, since an injection can't get past the intake valve until it opens, which the ECU has nothing to do with. It's true that injection phasing/mode/etc can make small changes to emissions or idle smoothness, but it physically cannot cause a no-start.

Logs and a tune would be greatly useful here. We know how the ECU works, but we haven't yet developed sufficient telepathy to see your engine and tune.
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Re: Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by NickZ »

Im working on getting logs, I don't get much of a chance to run this engine on the rusEFI as I use it as a daily, it currently runs on the "Other open firmware".
I do appreciate you guys helping too.
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Re: Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by NickZ »

Here are 2 logs taken from today.
today I have set it to paired injection and wasted COP.
removed the CAM trigger pin from tuner studio pin mapping and any settings for cam trigger.
trigger is set to 36/1 I am assuming this is for 36-1 or is it 36+1 cam and this is why Im having trouble?
While craning and not seeing a RPM or injector pulse, i can see a trigger log, its perfect, But it seems the firmware generates its own CAM cycle count (Home signal)? Why does it do that?
Still no luck getting it to start, It runs about 1 in every 10 tries.
I did have a video of it running once. But i didn't run for long, but that is more like my tune.
ive renamed the with TXT on the end to be able to upload them, but Im Know you already knew this.
Attachments
CurrentTune.msq.txt
(147.62 KiB) Downloaded 9 times
2022-06-27_15.59.09.mlg.txt
(6.59 MiB) Downloaded 9 times
2022-06-27_15.57.47.mlg.TXT
(188.12 KiB) Downloaded 7 times
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AndreyB
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Re: Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by AndreyB »

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Re: Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by mck1117 »

NickZ wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:50 am
trigger is set to 36/1 I am assuming this is for 36-1 or is it 36+1 cam and this is why Im having trouble?
You said this is a BMW? No BMW that I know of is 36-1.
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Re: Trigger settings - VVT sync requirement

Post by mck1117 »

NickZ wrote:
Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:50 am
ive renamed the with TXT on the end to be able to upload them, but Im Know you already knew this.
This was a suggestion to use rusefi.com/online :)
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