12-3 Crank sync issues; Suzuki Bandit 1200

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tmbryhn
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12-3 Crank sync issues; Suzuki Bandit 1200

Post by tmbryhn »

I'm involved in a project where we're struggling to get proper RPM sync.

We're using custom hardware running Discovery F407 firmware and MAX9926 VR encoder.
The crank trigger implementation is similar to OEM Honda CBR900 with a similar trigger offset of 65°.

We're getting nice sync while cranking with spark plugs removed (no compression, constant speed), but as soon as we're installing the spark plugs and introduce speed variations, we're getting no sync.
In the specific attachments, "Invert Primary" was set to "true", which is incorrect for MAX9926, but according to end user it doesn't affect getting good RPM sync while cranking without spark plugs.

The exact same engine with exact same crank trigger starts and runs fine on an MS2-extra ECU.
Triggerhjul 12-3.jpg
Triggerhjul 12-3.jpg (1018.9 KiB) Viewed 1074 times
Scop Triggerhjul 12-3.jpg
Scop Triggerhjul 12-3.jpg (919.55 KiB) Viewed 1074 times
Trigger Logger - 12-3 inverted.jpg
Trigger Logger - 12-3 inverted.jpg (275.58 KiB) Viewed 1074 times
Trigger Settings.jpg
Trigger Settings.jpg (504.9 KiB) Viewed 1074 times
log.jpg
log.jpg (308.67 KiB) Viewed 1074 times
Any ideas on where to go from here?
Attachments
2024-02-07 12-3.csv
(19.51 KiB) Downloaded 17 times
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AndreyB
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Re: 12-3 Crank sync issues; Suzuki Bandit 1200

Post by AndreyB »

Your megalogviewer screenshot focuses on all the right data points but without both good and bad logs I am blind.

Sometimes VR wires just need to be physically flipped.
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tmbryhn
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Re: 12-3 Crank sync issues; Suzuki Bandit 1200

Post by tmbryhn »

From the scope trace, it's clear that VR polarity is correct.
I can have the end user provide a log of cranking with no spark plugs that'll give perfect sync 👍🏼
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Re: 12-3 Crank sync issues; Suzuki Bandit 1200

Post by AndreyB »

tmbryhn wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:56 pm
I can have the end user provide a log of cranking with no spark plugs that'll give perfect sync 👍🏼
Sure you can but those would provide most value if provided together, the perfect one and the broken one.
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tmbryhn
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Re: 12-3 Crank sync issues; Suzuki Bandit 1200

Post by tmbryhn »

"Invert Primary" was set to false on this latest log.
Here's a side-by-side comparison of the logs without and with spark plugs. I hope the pics are good enough (I myself find it very hard to view them in the PC web browser, but it works ok on a phone zooming in).
If need be, I'm happy to upload log files, .msq and pics to a shared google drive folder.

Cranking without spark plug gives perfect sync both with and without "Invert primary" enabled.
Trigger log without & with spark plugs.jpg
Trigger log without & with spark plugs.jpg (740.99 KiB) Viewed 784 times
Data log without & with spark plugs.jpg
Data log without & with spark plugs.jpg (777.08 KiB) Viewed 784 times
I hope we can get some tips as to how we can solve this weird issue, otherwise we'd have to go back to Megasquirt, which would suck...
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AndreyB
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Re: 12-3 Crank sync issues; Suzuki Bandit 1200

Post by AndreyB »

tmbryhn wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2024 3:27 pm
I hope the pics are good enough
If need be, I'm happy to upload log files, .msq and pics to a shared google drive folder.
No comments.
image.png
image.png (530.15 KiB) Viewed 733 times
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tmbryhn
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Re: 12-3 Crank sync issues; Suzuki Bandit 1200

Post by tmbryhn »

AndreyB wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 10:01 pm
tmbryhn wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2024 9:56 pm
I can have the end user provide a log of cranking with no spark plugs that'll give perfect sync 👍🏼
Sure you can but those would provide most value if provided together, the perfect one and the broken one.
Here's a dropbox link with the same data. I don't know how to interpret your request above any other way than to give a direct side-by-side comparison like this. Rest assured, both datalogs are attached to the link as well:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kZEIUEBljSwTtDi-yZfntMsRfqDmvBJj?usp=sharing
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AndreyB
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Re: 12-3 Crank sync issues; Suzuki Bandit 1200

Post by AndreyB »

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/rusEFI-Quick-Start-PDF was created yesterday.

New line just added into it around https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/rusEFI-Quick-Start-PDF#log-it
Shaky videos do not do it. Even high-resolution screen shots do not do it: it has to be a proper log file.
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Re: 12-3 Crank sync issues; Suzuki Bandit 1200

Post by tmbryhn »

AndreyB wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 2:48 pm
https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/rusEFI-Quick-Start-PDF was created yesterday.

New line just added into it around https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/rusEFI-Quick-Start-PDF#log-it
Shaky videos do not do it. Even high-resolution screen shots do not do it: it has to be a proper log file.
Nice post.
Yup... That's why dealing with third party users can be difficult - they're not necessarily aware of the data rate setting. Personally, I'm always using max rate for logging trigger related, in addition to a custom logging profile that excludes all the unnecessary junk not related to trigger inputs that otherwise has a tendency to make the log size very large.
I'll see if they can make another log with max data rate.

Anyway. Judging by the .CSV trigger logs done in TS, the gap appears as extremely obvious visually speaking, and the amount of rising/falling edges amounts to the same in both logs (with/without spark plugs). Do you have any hypothesis as to why the firmware doesn't manage to establish proper sync? Are there any software tricks like Trigger Gap Override or the likes that can be done to overcome this issue?
Would a possible solution be to write a dedicated "Honda CBR" trigger pattern for the database (12-3)?
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Re: 12-3 Crank sync issues; Suzuki Bandit 1200

Post by AndreyB »

I am pretty confused now, need your help.

I open "12-3 wihtout spark plugs.mlg" I see one data point 6.001s and next data point at 6.041s would that be a 25Hz rate?

See https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/HOWTO-upload-log#data-rate
See https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/rusEFI-Quick-Start-PDF#log-it
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Re: 12-3 Crank sync issues; Suzuki Bandit 1200

Post by AndreyB »

AndreyB wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:55 pm
I am pretty confused now, need your help.
As in I was hoping that you would value my time and spell out "I do not have proper logs let me not bother you with unacceptable 25hz logs".
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tmbryhn
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Re: 12-3 Crank sync issues; Suzuki Bandit 1200

Post by tmbryhn »

tmbryhn wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:07 pm
I'll see if they can make another log with max data rate.
This means; I'll see if I can have THE END USERS make another log with max data rate.
I'm very sorry to have wasted your time. The thread will be updated once proper logs have been made. Hopefully this issue can be resolved then.
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