Subaru triggers.

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AndreyB
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by AndreyB »

AndreyB wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2023 2:58 pm
See screenshot - looks like the tallest gap gets below 2.6 limit, please try with the following settings. I will make same change in the codebase.
^^^
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SubaruLT
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by SubaruLT »

Sorry for a long wait. It's ok this time?
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=1308
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AndreyB
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by AndreyB »

Definitely not OK see gaps in RPM see trigger errors.

Need a link to your current tune to see your custom trigger gap settings.
image.png
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by SubaruLT »

AndreyB wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2023 9:30 pm
AndreyB wrote:
Sun Oct 08, 2023 2:58 pm
See screenshot - looks like the tallest gap gets below 2.6 limit, please try with the following settings. I will make same change in the codebase.
^^^
Sorry, Tray those settings, now looks like ok.
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=1309
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by AndreyB »

Trigger is happy now :)
image.png
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by SubaruLT »

Ok, thank you. ;)
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by SubaruLT »

At the moment I run RusEFI at my daily Subaru legacy EJ25D with 7/6 trigger. It runs okay when it starts, but I have some problems while cranking the engine. I get a trigger error, and sometimes it backfires or just locks the engine. It gets better while the battery booster is connected, and it gets worse when the battery gets lower. At a certain point, it's impossible to start the engine. Plug back the stock ECU and the car starts with no problem even with an almost dead battery. In the end, those starts, kill my starter overrunning clutch and it stops spinning the motor... Maybe something can be done to make it work better? Trigger gaps? How to get those values?
https://www.rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=1326
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by AndreyB »

SubaruLT wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2023 9:56 pm
Maybe something can be done to make it work better? Trigger gaps? How to get those values?
I think there are at least two separate problems
less important is 32000 RPM glitch in the beginning https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/5771

the more important problem is unreliable sync during cranking

See perfect signal shape red line
image.png
image.png (50.32 KiB) Viewed 24656 times
Compare with kicking engine totally different pattern
image.png
image.png (44.92 KiB) Viewed 24656 times
Is there no good signal to decode since engine wants to spin backwards? Is not this a tune problem? Need someone smarter to comment if it's about fuel or angle. Did you have a chance to confirm zero with a timing light?
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by NormanAlphaspeed »

Your cranking ignition advance is 0 degrees, which is fine, but have you tried going more negative?

If your engine is firing backwards, you're firing too early. Try setting it to -10 to -20
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by SubaruLT »

In tuner studio cranking settings, the Fixed cranking angle was set to 8. Now I set it to -10, and after a few starts set it to -15. It starts much better, but still gets a few trigger errors and one small backfire in the exhaust. In the log file, I see the ignition timing jumping from +-9 to +- -595. Can't upload a log at the moment, something with a page or my internet.
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by AndreyB »

How did you confirm zero? Timing light?
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by SubaruLT »

According to the previous log, it's 8. Like, set to tuner studio. That's why it locks the engine and messes up the trigger signal a lot. I might check it with the timing light, but need to find a TDC position on the pulley first.
Ps I can't upload a log. Get this message.
The page you are looking for is temporarily unavailable.
Please try again later.
e1451dbc18baf27bd604a098a1f3967b afafc2fdd4d8fcfbcc0c9d1f892aea01 e100d004aa9d9496c41d601e802b1da3
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AndreyB
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by AndreyB »

SubaruLT wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2023 8:55 pm
need to find a TDC position on the pulley first.
I am trying to say that best results at -15 make me question if you know where your TDC is.
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by SubaruLT »

If I remember correctly, I checked the 7/6 trigger timing with the light on the EJ20 Forester and it was ok. So I think that it should be ok on this car too because triggers are the same. But I check it with a timing light to make sure.
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by SubaruLT »

So. After some longer use, I still have a problem with the 6/7 trigger. Sometimes I get a trigger error while starting, this interrupts starting and needs more cranking. The second, and worse problem is that it won't synchronize. Sometimes I start the car ok, sometimes I can crank it as long as I want and nothing, turn the ignition off, turn it on again, and start. It's getting worse while the battery gets lower. After a certain point, can crank it longer and it won't synchronize. Try a few different batteries, same. Plug back stock ECU and start immediately with an almost dead battery. Any ideas?
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=1349
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=1350
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AndreyB
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by AndreyB »

I believe that the problem is not with trigger but with cranking fuel or timing settings.

I believe that due to unsatisfactory cranking tune your engine is sometimes kicking, that kick causes trigger pattern to go off expected ranges.

While root cause in my opinion is poor tune I think we can still try solving this with better trigger settings

Please try the following and report back!
image.png
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image.png
image.png (130.76 KiB) Viewed 17828 times
At the moment we have
trigger_TT_SUBARU_7_6.png
trigger_TT_SUBARU_7_6.png (36.7 KiB) Viewed 17828 times
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image.png (112.56 KiB) Viewed 17828 times
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by SubaruLT »

It starts way much faster and better. Still, get some trigger errors but now it does not look like a big problem.
After the last log, I left the car because it wouldn't start (my previous log file). Now enter trigger gaps and it starts with no big problem. Can't upload this log, but it shows an error the best
This is after some warm-up.
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=1352
And this one for comparison. I turn off trigger gaps override and try to start. After a longer pause, I turn back the trigger gap override and it starts much better.
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=1351
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by SubaruLT »

After longer use, it's definitely way much better. But it's still not perfect. When the car stays a few days, the battery gets lower, and it won't get synchronization: engine cranking but no synchro. + Getting trigger errors.
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=1360
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by AndreyB »

No, it's not getting trigger errors, I do not understand the issue. Do you still have gap overrides or have you removed it?

Please upload your tune
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by SubaruLT »

Still have it. The error gets only when it synchronizes and tries to start. Look at the last start.
As I said, this problem occurs only when battery gets low. With a freshly charged battery it its gets only some trigger error but start ok.
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by AndreyB »

AndreyB wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2024 4:20 pm
Please upload your tune
Please upload your tune. Looking at your logs I expect things to just work with default settings.
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by SubaruLT »

I run Core8 ECU. So I can't upload firmware directly. I load it with regular firmware and save it. So there are no pin settings in it.
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=1628
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by AndreyB »

Your overrides are worse than defaults change to 14
image.png
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See https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/All-Supported-Triggers#subaru-76-tooth I will also change 13 to 14 or 15
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by SubaruLT »

Changing from 12 to 15 helps a lot. It's getting synchronized ok. Now I leave it at 14. Looks okay too. But while I driving, it looks like my timing is retarded. I notice the same after the first time setting those trigger gaps. Do those trigger gaps affect timing while the engine is running? Maybe I need to adjust the timing with the timing light after that? And where can I read more about those trigger gap override settings?
Last edited by SubaruLT on Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AndreyB
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by AndreyB »

Trigger either sync or does not sync. Timing position completely unrelated
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Re: Subaru triggers.

Post by cyrille »

Hello Watch my melody in RUSEFI online,
my car starts very well even after a week without driving. I
t will surely not be 100% but will surely help
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