M70 55pin DME Connector board connection to Proteus 0.7.0

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FrenchEarlyM70
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M70 55pin DME Connector board connection to Proteus 0.7.0

Post by FrenchEarlyM70 »

Hello,
I'm planning to start my early production (December 1987) M70 with the magnificent Proteus, but unlike the 134 pin connector from the M73, my connectors only have 55 pins. I uploaded the DME plug reference which is fairly simple compared to e38's 88 pins https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1886&p=45360&hilit=v12#p45360 :D
bmw-e32-750il-ecu-pinout.pdf
(141.77 KiB) Downloaded 22 times
My first major issue is for individual injector control, the 88 pins connector of late production M70 have pinouts for each injector, not 55 pins... I'm planning to first test fuel pump relay activation from proteus as a starting point but do you have any idea of how to wire the rusEFI to the original 55 pins wiring harness of the M70 ?
While waiting from your kind and helpful replies I'll try to mix the late M70 88 pins wiring harness part that goes to the individual injectors as the GitHub link shows :? !
Have a great day !
Alexandre
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AndreyB
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Re: M70 55pin DME Connector board connection to Proteus 0.7.0

Post by AndreyB »

Please help us help you. Please elaborate a bit on what is special with 55 pin connector, maybe some snippets of the wiring diagram focused on your problem? What is the _exact_ question at the moment?
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FrenchEarlyM70
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Re: M70 55pin DME Connector board connection to Proteus 0.7.0

Post by FrenchEarlyM70 »

Hello,
I found out that the part of my wiring harness regarding negative injector cables are batches of three injectors each, grounded to two DME connector pins ! I've heard that Proteus may fail grounding batches of more than two injectors at high load or rpm :cry: so I'd rather connect injectors ground individually on proteus !
The 55 pins connectors can't be used because of it's 4 injectors outputs and same issue with my 88 pins spare wiring harness ! Only the 134 pins seems to have individual injector pinout, a great feature :shock: !
What do you think about batched injection ?
One of my injector batch not only grounds do one of the DME but goes into the EML, so not sure about cutting into injector ground wiring to break the bundles ! I'll test which pins of the EML are wired to the bundles of injectors and send you what I found with pictures ! I discussed with a rusEFI member (thanks Bill) and his vee12 runs on proteus without EML so as I'm getting rid of my zf4hp24 auto trans and fitting a gs6 35dz hgk, I maybe don't need EML as TCM will become useless !
What do you think of EML, is it important to keep it for cluster and other BMW stuff or is it ok to run engine without it ?
Have a great day and thank you so much for your willing to help
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Re: M70 55pin DME Connector board connection to Proteus 0.7.0

Post by Simon@FutureProof »

A lot of your loom will be layed out similar to the E30 M20B25 loom.

As you say your injectors will be 3 in a group.

There is not really a way to handle this on a stock rusEFI ECU as the most we have tried so far is 2 injectors per output.

If you want to keep the M70 55 pin plugs I think the only thing you could realistically do to address this is to run some extra wiring for the injectors and put them onto a separate plug.
The M50 or M52 loom will provide a good quality injector harness but you would need two, otherwise it's going to be a custom job or acquiring a late M70 loom and modifying it to suit your car/engine. I don't think there is any easy solution to this one.
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Re: M70 55pin DME Connector board connection to Proteus 0.7.0

Post by FrenchEarlyM70 »

Thanks very much for your advice, all injectors work fine now, they're wired individually to each ground pin of the proteus ! Regarding ignition coils (only two as I keep my distributors for now), both pins n°27 of my DME plugs which goes to the hot end of the coils is wired to the pin n°23 of the black 23 pin connector of the Proteus.
According to the Proteus pinout table, I should have positive current flowing from Proteus n°23 yellow cable to both coils. Each coil ground goes back to the DME plug on pin n°1, and I wired them to pins n°35 and n°34 of the black 35 Proteus connector.
When testing continuity between Proteus and coil all wirings are good but no +12V on n°23 pin of Proteus... What went wrong :?
Thanks for your time ;)
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Re: M70 55pin DME Connector board connection to Proteus 0.7.0

Post by Simon@FutureProof »

You will need some ignition packs to drive those coils, the outputs of the RE are only able to work directly with 5v signal smart coils.

I have had good success with the VW/Bosch pack - PN 4D0905351
https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Vault-Of-Ignition-Parts
That list gives the parts we know work well with RE, the bosch packs are on there, they go between the ECU and the coil to drive the high current 12v the coils need.
Each of those packs is enough for 4 coils.

Can you post your full pinout so I can have a scan through and check things for you?
Just a list of pin number and function is enough
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Re: M70 55pin DME Connector board connection to Proteus 0.7.0

Post by FrenchEarlyM70 »

I can't find the VW 1.8t ignition module wiring layout, do you know where I can find it ? But only one pack is required as I have only two coils ! Thank you very much I'll get one asap !
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Re: M70 55pin DME Connector board connection to Proteus 0.7.0

Post by Simon@FutureProof »

Hi.

As discussed the modules are the same as the ones people have been using with MS for years, the documentation at the link 99% applied to rusefi but obviously we are not limited to just wasted spark.
Thus no need to wire two pins of the module to one RE output.

http://www.useasydocs.com/Bosch_211.htm
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Re: M70 55pin DME Connector board connection to Proteus 0.7.0

Post by FrenchEarlyM70 »

Hello everybody, here are the pins from Proteus I connected to DME:

Black 23 pin 23 : DME 37 and 27 (main relay "supply")
Black 23 pin 18 : Needs to come from ignition switch but as I can't find this pin I used battery + DME 18
Black 35 pin 23 : DME 3 and relays works fine on both pumps !
Black 35 pin 10 : When connecting the DME 36 (main relay "control") it the main relay instantly makes buzzing sounds !

I'm a bit confused about this as Matthew told me RE controls main relay from low side pin 10 and when connecting DME 36, main relay starts without Proteus on ! As DME 36 is hot even without ignition switch in run state, when I connect it on pin 18 from proteus black 23 connector everything starts "fine" but I'd like your precious advice on this wiring before cranking !

Thanks in advance ;)
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Re: M70 55pin DME Connector board connection to Proteus 0.7.0

Post by FrenchEarlyM70 »

Hello, here are the updates on my build:

Proteus pin 23 on black 23 connector: DME 37 (only one DME plug needs to be wired to RE as OEM harness bundles/bridges both DMEs)
Proteus 18 on black 23: DME 27 (also OEM bridged)
Proteus 10 on black 35: DME 36 (needs to be bridged between DME plugs and Proteus as each DME controls each main relay)
With this wiring, I managed to power on my RE Proteus along with all accessories like main relay or fuel pump priming only at ignition switch run and start position.

My remaining concerns are for the pedal position sensor(see below). The OEM one has two « closed » and « full load » pins (52 and 53 DME), can I wire my pedal directly on Proteus ? For ETB I’ll go with Hitachi Nissan ones, as Andrey and Bill did with their vee12 !

Have a great day and thanks for your help !
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Re: M70 55pin DME Connector board connection to Proteus 0.7.0

Post by Simon@FutureProof »

Following up on your slack questions here.
Couple of things that are not quite right with your tune:

Your tune is currently set to use AlphaN. Is this correct?
This will only use the throttle position as the load axis of the VE and ignition table, I have no idea how well this will work with the ETBs.
You have a MAP sensor set up on AV1 so I assume you intended to use the Speed Density fueling method?

Trigger angle should be 84 not 90, only small and you should double check with a timing light but the bosch ECUs actually end up at 84 degrees.
You should set "use only rising edge" to true for a VR sensor

Your fueling is set to Sequentioal, considering you have no cam sensor set up and just for getting started you will get better results from Batch injection with "individually wired batch fuel" set to true.

Injector flow is set to 180cc, is this correct for the V12?

Your VE table is set to 45% VE through out and the load axis is scaled wrong, for AlphaN it would only ever reach 100% and for an SD setup it should reach the max kPa you expect to see (na engines will only ever see ~110kPa)

Your ignition timing map seems a bit aggressive but it should run as a base map, I would reduce the values a bit personally however the Y axis is also wrong for and AlphaN tune as above.

Cranking fuel is best set to batch annd 27mg might be too little fuel to start well, try ~45mg as that is what my M20 starts well on.

Have you measured the resistance of your IAT and CLT to know you have the correct resistance values set for them?
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