[help needed] 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

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AndreyB
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

low pressure fuel control: http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=18584.0title= says
Open loop. KFNTBKS and KFFLAF control the pressure request > duty cycle conversion.
also http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=4996.0
KFNTBKS "Target pressure as a function of temperature HDP"
KLPSKRMX "Characteristic set pressure fuel low pressure system maximum"

Now looking for help to actually see those.

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Getting closer :)
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

OEM low fuel tables, next step would be to understand those :)
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

I was able to run for a second or two with high pressure pre-build by OEM ECU. Rail pressure vs injector flow table would be nice, as is I am totally blind.

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Ola says RKTI is the relevant chapter
Matt says
korrektur bei variablem kraftstoffdruck is reciprocal pressure compensation

0.03 means 1137cc/min
34.125/KRKATE = cc/min

Looks like injectors are 300cc/min at 6 bar

https://s4wiki.com/wiki/Tuning#Primary

More details to follow.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by mck1117 »

with help of @960, we've figured out what the stock injector calibration looks like.

The parameter KRKATE defines the injector flow at a particular reference pressure, which in this case comes out to 1214 cc/min at 10 MPa (100 bar) fuel pressure.

The table labeled Korrektur bei variablem Kraftstoffdruck (correction for variable fuel pressure) contains a mapping from fuel pressure (MPa) to reciprocal correction factor from the reference flow. So at 10MPa it indicates 1.0 (no correction), and at 3MPa it indicates 1.826, which means the flow is 54.8% of the reference flow, so 665 cc/min.
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With some math in excel, we can confirm a few things:
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1. These injectors are identical to the injectors in the 2013 Ford Focus ST (that I used to own)
2. The curve follows a perfect square root vs. pressure relationship, as is expected. Flow thru an orifice is proportional to the square root of the pressure.
3. rusEfi doesn't need a full fuel pressure vs. flow table: we can simply use a reference pressure/flow, and convert on the fly using sqrt.

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Blue crank VR positive.

Pink high side which is shared between cylinders 1 & 3 - tomorrow I shall move to negative side wire so that we have engine cycle.

Yellow is fuel pressure regulator valve, i.e. HPFP valve. Right now it looks like only one cam lobe is working. https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/oem_docs/VW/2006_Passat/SSP_334_d1.pdf is advertising two lobes on the cam so this stock ECU might be skipping pumps on low load. Tomorrow I shall floor this in neutral and see if we get 2nd lobe to pump.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by mck1117 »

AndreyB wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:15 am
Yellow is fuel pressure regulator valve, i.e. HPFP valve.
And the important thing here is that it looks like this is a high impedance solenoid, not a low impedance one like some other GDI setups. That means the pump can be driven from a normal lowside output, not something special on the MC33816/PT2001 board.

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

HPFP: On start we seem to be pumping on each of the three lobes and a bit later we only use one out of three lobes on idle.

With all the multitasking still hoping to floor this but tomorrow again.

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

It's November 2020 and I have finally learned how to undo VAG D-connectors - you have to push those IN and then you can unclick.

This dude just talks and talks and talks but he is the source of wisdom.

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by mck1117 »

This knowledge has changed my life and I don't even own any VAG products.

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by kb1gtt »

Yeah, the old push before you pull, that's huge with those connectors. I often give a dab of WD40 to help break them free on the push.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

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I've somehow destroyed two injectors, #2 and #3 (those share boost line - GDI setups have injector pairs share some of the electrical magic).

I have no idea how this happened and that's the scary part :( I read infinite resistance, stock ECU is misfiring, stock ECU throws injectors #2 and #3 codes after about 10 seconds.

Damn. Internet says it's a couple of hours to replace, I've ordered a kit of useful special tools, I have spare injectors but I wonder how many more spare sets I would need :(

I believe I have polarity right. I do not have any other ideas what I could have messed up.

https://rusefi.com/docs/ibom/Common_Rail_MC33816_0.3.2.html
https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/VolkswagenPassatB6#60
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Looks like a LOT of fun to replace those injectors

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by kb1gtt »

While your at it I suggest changing the oil prosper switch. It's cheap and a bigger to change. I also understand the injectors will be stuck. You might want to consider just breaking then all out and replace them. I understand even with the head off they are difficult to get out.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Low pressure fuel control works:

For whatever reason GP4 low side did not seem to control low side fuel pump module (reminder that on this vehicle there is a small control module between ECU and actual pump module takes 20Hz control signal from ECU). Thing got better once I've started to use TLE8888 "injector 4" channel for low pressure control signal.

Some OEM training about fuel control at https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/oem_docs/VW/2006_Passat/SSP_334_d1.pdf

https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=65
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

AndreyB wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:12 am
I read infinite resistance, stock ECU is misfiring, stock ECU throws injectors #2 and #3 codes after about 10 seconds.
Correction: infinite resistance was due to damaged breakout board.

New measurement closer to OEM harness shows 1 ohm on injectors 2&3 (the ones stock ECU flags as not good) while 1&4 measure 2 ohms.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

high pressure fuel control: i think it's not build pressure

https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=66

yellow line HPFP valve, pink line coil #1 signal. One image stock ECU another image rusEFI looks close enough to build something?
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Actually those images above show a problem: there is no 12v feed into HPFP valve any more :(

On OEM image we see 5v scale and 2.5 bars for 12 volts swing. On rusEFI image we have same 5v scale but only 3v of swing :(

I believe that https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/VolkswagenPassatB6 point at fuse F33 15A. I've opened the fuse box - fuse is fine but there is no +12v on the "source" terminal?! I.e. I now have a damaged fuse box? Makes no sense :(
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Bingo! With one more relay energized I have high pressure fuel control! On this image LPFP pump is not active so LP is failing while HP is rising.

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

Fuel pump tapper is apparently a wear item on these engines?!

Anyway, old injectors 3.3, 1.4, 1.3 и 2.2 ohms - 1.4 and 1.3 are the ones OEM ECU was not happy about. New used set 2.1, 2.3, 2.3 и 2.3 ohms.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by kb1gtt »

Hmmm, 3.3 may also be a concern. I would suggest changing to all 2.2 if you can stomach it.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule

Post by AndreyB »

kb1gtt wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:54 pm
Hmmm, 3.3 may also be a concern. I would suggest changing to all 2.2 if you can stomach it.
Yep, all four were replaced to a set from the donor.
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