[rusEfi] red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

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NBytevenom
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by NBytevenom »

AndreyB wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 5:36 pm
Ha, there is a crazy idea to actually drive that EGR solenoid since we have outputs! That would be low side pin 3D.
What's the failure mode of the EGR solenoid? Closed? I have all the solenoids and other emission junk in one pile, so I've no idea which one is which anymore...
My concern would be if the solenoid failed on someone while driving, or something else along those lines, the whole car stops - If there is no MAF. I think its a safe assumption that most people running a standalone would want to ditch the MAF for some cool intake plumbing.
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

NBytevenom wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 7:21 pm
What's the failure mode of the EGR solenoid? Closed? I have all the solenoids and other emission junk in one pile, so I've no idea which one is which anymore...
My concern would be if the solenoid failed on someone while driving, or something else along those lines, the whole car stops - If there is no MAF. I think its a safe assumption that most people running a standalone would want to ditch the MAF for some cool intake plumbing.
At this point I think we are trying to improve the first week with rusEFI.

Also what's the relationship between ditching MAF and EGR solenoid? EGR solenoid is related to using on-board MAP sensor. Good question if it's OK to drive with that solenoid constantly open?
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by stefanst »

AndreyB wrote:
Tue May 19, 2020 5:36 pm
Ha, there is a crazy idea to actually drive that EGR solenoid since we have outputs! That would be low side pin 3D.
But opening EGR will rob you of power. DON"T DO IT!
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by Crazy Striker »

That's only the EGR sensing solenoid, and not the EGR valve itself which I think is a separate stepper.
As for the solenoid why not grounding it altogether ?
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by kb1gtt »

We have the outputs, and if it's hardwired, then we can not change it easily. If it's a problem for some unexpected reason, we can change it in software.

Why the concern about driving it with an extra output?
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by Crazy Striker »

Not much concern, as long as you have enough outputs it's fine
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

Note to myself: I have four extra pins added into OEM harness now, see https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=36574#p36574 for more details
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

Time to eat my own dog food!

Here we see SD card log files downloaded from ECU via https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Online

I am looking for help with my NB2 tune. While car starts fine I am not happy with the warm-up - I believe the engine is not running happily. Actually injected fuel is all over the place on the log that can't be a good sign?

Tune https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=231
Unable to upload these logs to Online due to https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/1864


image.png
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REO_device.jpg
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

I've smoothen VE table in the tune https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=233&dialog=veTableDialog yet it's the same oscillation of MAP/VE/RPM/AFR :( Looking for help.

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/1864 was fixed so I present you first ever SD card uploaded completely remotely - https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=49
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

Oh, looks like this all goes from idle control oscillation.
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deezums
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by deezums »

What I see, and I've only run megasquirts so might not be worth much...

VVT, not sure how the angle is calculated, but you seem to be holding some advance at those low loads and RPMs. Can't really do that, too much overlap. I target 3 degrees to keep my phaser from rattling because megasquirt can't pause PID calculations and kill the solenoid and allow it to lock at a zero target, Listen close and you hear it clack. Much worse as the oil gets warm, my car will not move past 2 degrees or so when fully hot below 1100RPM or so. To get started I would disable VVT somehow, get it idling and set timing and then worry about it.

Second, not sure where the AFR comes from but you appear to be wicked lean. You need more WUE, ASE or VE would be my guess.
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by mck1117 »

deezums wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 6:15 pm
Second, not sure where the AFR comes from but you appear to be wicked lean. You need more WUE, ASE or VE would be my guess.
no reason to fuss with those until we know what steady state actually looks like - idle control needs to get locked out and set at some reasonable spot so that it quits oscillating, then we can look at actually getting the fueling closer to right.
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

@stefanst has stopped by and his expert opinion was that WBO does not report right. This was confirmed by running OEM ECU and 20 AFR on a warm car does not seem realistic.

Next step: WBO sensor replacement.
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

Orange PI USB pinout note to myself - need to loan this board to a local NB2 with forced induction.
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by mk e »

AndreyB wrote:
Fri Oct 09, 2020 5:57 pm
Oh, looks like this all goes from idle control oscillation.
Turn off every you can turn off....idle control, closed loop, CLT you probably need to get it started and warm but that is the only correction I ever use on a fresh setup and make sure the correction is 0 before you start trying to tune anything...you need to know what you're changing is actually what is controlling the results you are looking at.

Get no load steady state right through the rpm band, idle to redline. Then light load, then heavy load. Once that is done its time to play with corrections and other fancier things or you end up running in circles for ....well I've honestly seen people circling for years. Once the no load VE is set you can work on the startup stuff to make getting back to work on a new day easier...but everything else off.

If you are not trusting the O2 reading, plug a plug and google "plug read". The plugs never lie. just listening to the sound will also tell you a lot....steady throttle should be steady rpm....too lean and it will "hunt", too rich and you'll see smoke and/or black plugs. First pass through is just make it run through the rpm band. Then it is time to install the O2 sensors as they are easy to kill......not that I always follow my own advice which is why I just replaced my O2 sensors :oops:
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

Helper should land tomorrow, plan is to knock using pictured Proteus 0.4
Harness pigtail is ready but need to insert terminals into proper connector positions and have NB2 Proteus configuration in the code.
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

I read input/turbine shaft automatic transmission speed sensor but having some sort of issue reading transmission output speed sensor :(

Rockauto shows input shaft NTK AU0064 and another one NTK VB0108, I measure 400 Ohm on one and 600 Ohm on another.
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by stefanst »

AndreyB wrote:
Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:55 am
I read input/turbine shaft automatic transmission speed sensor but having some sort of issue reading transmission output speed sensor :(

Rockauto shows input shaft NTK AU0064 and another one NTK VB0108, I measure 400 Ohm on one and 600 Ohm on another.
Are you trying to read VSS? Are you trying to read the sensor directly? The signal supplied by the dash is a 5V square wave if memory serves me right. No need to read the sensor itself.
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

Nope, not trying to read VSS but since I am not reading maybe there is a huge misunderstanding somewhere :)

At this point it looks like there are three sensors on the transmission - two sensors wired into TCU and VSS not wired into TCU.

At this point I am failing to get output sensor from bottom-left corner of

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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by stefanst »

Sorry- I thought you were trying to capture VSS. Reading comprehension fail.
I have 0 experience with those sensors. No AT experience at all. Looks like standard VR sensors though. One for turbine input (should be RPM I guess?) and one for output (should be output shaft speed divided by gear ratio).
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

Now running Proteus for knock tests. On idle it shows -30dBa https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=90
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

Minor smoke was released while taking those pictures. Pictured 122 and 125 version of the same connector family. TE has 94 and 108 pin versions as well. For us that means on-board WBO.
Attachments
20210114_170208.jpg
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

Looks like we've really changed what we report into engine sniffer? master, proteus
Attachments
2021-04-04_15_01_18_892rpm_0_maf_0.0-proteus-0.4.png
2021-04-04_15_01_18_892rpm_0_maf_0.0-proteus-0.4.png (64.65 KiB) Viewed 378 times
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

With https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/2528 fixed
both physical and logic mode
Attachments
2021-04-04_23_33_15_581rpm_0_maf_0.001.png
2021-04-04_23_33_15_581rpm_0_maf_0.001.png (72.76 KiB) Viewed 358 times
2021-04-04_23_30_03_166rpm_0_maf_0.001.png
2021-04-04_23_30_03_166rpm_0_maf_0.001.png (68.93 KiB) Viewed 358 times
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

Trying to log input shaft signal duty cycles

Code: Select all

2021-04-07_16_24_50_902: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_50_902: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1378 time=66 index=0: gap=1.554 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_50_902: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_50_902: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1378 time=66 index=0: gap=0.631 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_50_902: EngineState: vvt00 duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_50_902: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1378 time=66 index=0: gap=0.903 expected from 6.375 to 14.000 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_50_902: EngineState: vvt00 duty 208.514358520 18158
2021-04-07_16_24_50_902: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1378 time=66 index=0: gap=0.122 expected from 6.375 to 14.000 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_50_912: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_50_912: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1378 time=66 index=0: gap=1.557 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_50_982: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_50_982: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1378 time=66 index=0: gap=0.635 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_50_982: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_50_982: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1378 time=66 index=0: gap=1.562 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_50_992: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_002: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1378 time=66 index=0: gap=0.633 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_002: EngineState: vvt00 duty 311.426025390 27179
2021-04-07_16_24_51_002: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1375 time=66 index=0: gap=9.034 expected from 6.375 to 14.000 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_002: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1375 time=66 index=0: gap=1.599 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1375 time=66 index=0: gap=0.651 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1375 time=66 index=0: gap=1.554 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1375 time=66 index=0: gap=0.631 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: vvt00 duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1375 time=66 index=0: gap=0.905 expected from 6.375 to 14.000 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: vvt00 duty 208.851043701 18227
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1375 time=66 index=0: gap=0.121 expected from 6.375 to 14.000 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1375 time=66 index=0: gap=1.558 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_012: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1375 time=66 index=0: gap=0.634 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_082: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_082: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1375 time=66 index=0: gap=1.556 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_082: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_082: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1375 time=66 index=0: gap=0.633 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_102: EngineState: vvt00 duty 312.151550292 27282
2021-04-07_16_24_51_112: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1373 time=66 index=0: gap=9.071 expected from 6.375 to 14.000 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_112: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_112: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1373 time=66 index=0: gap=1.600 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_112: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1373 time=66 index=0: gap=0.651 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1373 time=66 index=0: gap=1.553 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1373 time=66 index=0: gap=0.631 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: vvt00 duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1373 time=66 index=0: gap=0.903 expected from 6.375 to 14.000 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: vvt00 duty 209.050689697 18271
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1373 time=66 index=0: gap=0.121 expected from 6.375 to 14.000 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1373 time=66 index=0: gap=1.560 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1373 time=66 index=0: gap=0.635 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: TRG duty 0.000000000 0
2021-04-07_16_24_51_122: EngineState: TRG  rpm=1373 time=66 index=0: gap=1.558 expected from 0.349 to 0.980 error=No
And some Proteus engine sniffer images, and a Proteus log just for reference https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=190
Attachments
2021-04-07_16_37_25_831rpm_909_maf_0.0.png
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2021-04-07_16_37_22_638rpm_934_maf_0.0.png
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2021-04-07_16_37_21_259rpm_909_maf_0.001.png
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2021-04-07_16_37_17_265rpm_922_maf_0.001.png
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AndreyB
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

Proteus is wired makes it easy to poke into wires
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by stefanst »

Timing on Inj1 is also off from the look of it,
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

Just realized that those engine sniffer images show a major problem which we simply do not notice.

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/2533 created
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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by AndreyB »

Reference cold start video without idle without VVT without full logs because reasons :(

Tooth log attached.

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Re: red 2003 VVT test mule Miata NB2 #27

Post by stefanst »

Hellen72c shows the same unevenness oddness with spark and injector timing using the Jimstim to simulate the trigger pattern.
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