[rusEfi] 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

[kb1gtt]

1 ATM is 100ish KPa, so a KPa of around 62 to 67 kPa seems about correct-ish with a closed TPS. Also it's bouncing around as expected, with a bit of noise on it. Looks like most of that noise if from the sensor, perhaps some turbulence in the intake. How much does your fuel change if you assume 60kPa instead of 70kPa? What was your sensor? You might have some electrical noise that contributing to the jitter in the signal.

Do you have a vacuum gauge? If you did you could verify the pressure with a mechanical gauge. They don't cost very much.

[AndreyB]

What was your sensor?

Stock Dodge Neon 2003 OEM sensor in the stock location.

[AndreyB]

To my big surprise Speed Density has fired the engine right away. We also did a bit of driving and tuning, it simply works! The default 80% VE was not too far off, it's just a miracle.

Here are the logs:
https://svn.code.sf.net/p/rusefi/code/trunk/misc/logs/2003_dodge_neon/DataLogs/2014-12-13_15.08.49.msl
https://svn.code.sf.net/p/rusefi/code/trunk/misc/logs/2003_dodge_neon/DataLogs/2014-12-13_15.16.31.msl

Now I need to ask Tuner Studio support some questions regarding their usability...

[AndreyB]

Big day for me - first rusEfi dyno run.

Stock ECU run: 121hp/127 lb-ft
1st rusEfi run ever - wooping 44hp/69 lb-ft. Right, 12 degrees advance does not work so cool
8 runs later: 123hp/128 lb-ft. More then stock ECU!

We did not tune fuel at all, the plan for the day was to get close to stock values and just test everything. Mission accomplished

full archive: https://svn.code.sf.net/p/rusefi/code/trunk/misc/logs/2003_dodge_neon/2014_dec_20_dyno/2014_dec_20_dyno.7z

This was not cheap, no idea when the next time will be - we'll see.

[kb1gtt]

Very nice, very nice. I'm sure you got to learn all sorts of great things. Was that SD or AlphaN? I believe it was SD. Also looks like you were consistently above stock for HP and torque. Very good for a first try.

[AndreyB]

Was that SD or AlphaN?

This was un-tuned SD. I am now a big believer in physics and 80% VE

[spags]

Wow, congrats! This is a great milestone.

1 hp over stock! What is up with that dip between 3k rpm and 3.75k rpm?

[AndreyB]

[video][/video]

[jfive]

Good deal. I check in a few times a week hoping for new updates. Progress is progress.

[blundar]

That's pretty cool. We'll make a tuner out of you eventually, Andrey. Maybe.

[kb1gtt]

Sweet. Did the Neon auto tune significantly different from how you did it on the Dyno?

[AndreyB]

[video][/video]

[AndreyB]

Sweet. Did the Neon auto tune significantly different from how you did it on the Dyno?

That "auto-tune" is still doing something weird The only progress at the moment is that it at least does SOMETHING.

On the dyno we were tuning timing by hand while fuel was un-tuned & rich, that auto-tune is supposed to help us with tuning fuel by calculating the VE table.

[AndreyB]

[video][/video]

[AndreyB]

Larger message area font, RPM gauge, headlights on/off:

[video][/video]

[Sam]

What I'm more impressed about than the marginal HP improvement is the bottom end gain you've gotten out of this. That's quite an impressive improvement in low end torque... I bet it's a lot more fun as well.

[AndreyB]

I am pretty happy with alternator control for now, VE auto-tune seems to work - I am out of excuses not to look into acceleration handling.

Which currently sucks:

https://svn.code.sf.net/p/rusefi/code/trunk/misc/logs/2003_dodge_neon/DataLogs/2015_Mar_25/



[video][/video]

[AndreyB]

Something is not right - as you see on the gauge, constant timing is expected - yet somehow at high RPM the mark not where it is at low RPM
[video][/video]

[AndreyB]

PS: another one
[video][/video]

[kb1gtt]

Can you capture the crank pulses and the timing pulses with the logic analyzer? It possible the timing light is loosing accuracy for a variety of reasons, or that the coil is charging and discharging differently which causes various delays, ect. What I wonder about is if the pulses are correct. Your pulses may not match the timing light results.

[AndreyB]

I suspect that my pulses are not perfect. Self-stimulation does not look perfect, I need to try with one stm stimulating another and get to the bottom of it

[AndreyB]

I suspect that my pulses are not perfect.

These pictures show show troublesome stuff, I would report once I trouble shoot this further:

[AndreyB]

On a more positive note: I've got vehicle speed sensor working.

My sensor is a Hall type, the wire coming into ECU is constantly switched between ground and floating. At first I've tried feeding this right into a digital input with just a 1K pull-up, but this did not work - all kinds of noises - I was getting lot of false period measurements.

For second attempt I've routed VSS sensor wire, with same 1K pull-up, into the op-amp - this has helped me before with trigger input. Success! Got a nice clean VSS signal.

[abecedarian]

1K pull-up is kind of strong; maybe 4.7-10K is more apropos. You need a fast transition from high to low and 1K will adversely affect the slew rate, if the chip is even really able to reliably overcome that at all.

[kb1gtt]

Most halls have a max output around to 20mA to 30mA. If you have 1k pull up and 12V for your VCC supply, you'll have about 12mA of current. If you are using 5V, then your only at 5mA of current in the hall sensor.

See page 26 of this http://cherryswitches.com/cherrydownloads/cherry_sensors.pdf which suggests resistors for that particular MFG's sensors. Here are some snippets.

hall_resistors_location.PNG

hall_resistors.PNG

[AndreyB]

With the bugfix by @ hip9011 stuff is ready to be tested on a real car. I've added all the knock detection stuff to my in-the-car board and I was really looking to run the test, but something went wrong.

My car starts on rusEfi but it idles lower then usual (currently 800 vs usual 1200) and it would not rev above 2k. Something is wrong but I have no idea what Do not remember changing much in the code recently. The most suspicious thing I see is MAP showing sometimes 50kPa, sometimes 70kPa on idle - I believe it's a bit too much. I remember and I have the logs showing MAP about 30kPa on idle.

Checked the input voltage - the voltage is in fact above 2.5 volts, for my sensor that's in fact abouve 50kPa which is wrong.

Leaving town tomorrow, will only look into this next weekend

Oh, and stock ECU acts funny too, but maybe it's due to limping mode due to disconnected o2. Will start by swapping back the OEM o2 on Saturday.

[kb1gtt]

It's possible a broken MAP can also put your OEM ECU in limp home mode. I've seen a suby that only needed an RPM sensor to technically work. It did not produce much for power, but it still ran which surprised me. Can we verify the MAP voltage on the stock ECU?

[AndreyB]

[video][/video]

P0501 is vehicle speed sensor, how critical would it be for a manual trans? yet the car barely moves in 1st gear, I am unable to drive out of the underground garage since I need to go up-hill.

[kb1gtt]

Sounds like your sensors have gone wonky. Do you have an OBDII scan tool? Can you check TPS, O2, RPM, IAT, MAP/MAF with an OBDII scan tool? Your vehicle speed code could have originally been a variety of other codes before this one became dominate. I would say first things first, check the other devices, also check the O2 sensor. If that's disconnected it will go into limp-home mode. Your lack of power is because your ECU has gone into limp home mode. This has probably happened because the ECU has identified the signals to the ECU are not correct. The key is figuring out what signal is wrong and fixing it.

[AndreyB]

Here's how it looks like with disconnected TPS, I believe that's how limping mode looks like:

[video][/video]

Now, TPS is reconnected, new MAP sensor, after code reset. The car does not want to rev with WOT, while it would rev to some extent with 70% open throttle:

[video][/video]

I guess I will go get new spark plugs, do not have other ideas