Hello from the West Coast!

[theflyingdutchp]

Hello rusefi!

I'm hoping to turbocharge my 3SFE powered Camry soon. I've got most of the physical build sorted (turbo, piping, cooling, oil, etc) - but don't have an EFI solution yet.

I'm planning on doing some more reading later today (have done some, but not enough), but my setup is as follows:
Cam driven (distributor) position sensor. 90% certain its VR. 24 teeth and 4 teeth at the moment. I plan on removing the 4tooth sensor (they share grounds) and removing one tooth from the 24 wheel => a single 24/1 wheel.
Ignition - ECU controlled distributor.
Fuel - 4 injectors (need to check low or high z)
Other - Flapper type Toyota AFM, or a Ford Modular 80mm MAF. Need to drive fuel pump & fan relays. Also, I'm pretty sure idle control is PWM, but I'm not certain. I have a spare one to play with, but no oscilloscope or anything like that.
Hopefully this is possible - I don't mind DIYing some extra relays if need be. If this thread needs to be somewhere else let me know!

I've got some basic experience with DC and automotive circuits. Ok at soldering. Pretty good mechanic, but this will be a new level for me.

At the moment I'm planning on just trying to get the motor running in the stock configuration - hopefully that should ease the transition to Forced Induction.

[AndreyB]

Hey there!

High-Z/Low-Z is your biggest question, a multi-meter should be able to help. How many wires go to idle controller would help figuring out the type. Sounds like a 90s engine and that's exactly where rusEfi is at the moment.

[theflyingdutchp]

FSM says 13.8ohms - high-z stock injectors. I got some bigger ones to run the turbo, but I'll have to measure those after buying a new multimeter.
ISC has 3 wires. Ones gets +12v the other two go to the ECU. Setup is a shaft with a coolant-heated bimetal spring on one end, valve in the middle (for air passage), and a permanent magnet + coil on the other end.

Also, I've got an Innovate LC-1 Wideband with the controller that I was hoping to use. Will this complicate things?

Thanks for the fast response!

[AndreyB]

LC-1 is a great choice but the numbe of wires on the IAC is unusual to me, we will have to wait for an electrical engineer to comment

[theflyingdutchp]

I played around with the spare ISC I have. If I apply 12v to B+ and ground either ISC1 or ISC2, the valve moves fully closed or fully open.
The FSM mentions current application, so I imagine its a PWM or other current-limiting setup. Full current is full closed/full open. Half current is half closed/open, etc.

Unfortunately I don't have a PWM setup, or any way to datalog the car while its running..

Does rusEfi support PWM control?

[AndreyB]

yep we have one-wire pwm solenoid control

[theflyingdutchp]

I suppose if needed the circuit could be switched pin to pin. Bit painful though, and likely a bit of a pain to implement in software...

Its pretty close to fully closed with no voltage applied to either pin. What if one end is not PWM controlled, and the other is? Would that be difficult to code?
In the mean time I'm going to see if I can adjust the ISC to close fully with no voltage applied.

By the way, 10/10 on the response level & helpfulness! Much appreciated

[Thommm]

He's good at that, dev support

Are you from Holland as well?

[theflyingdutchp]

Yes! Originally I'm from Holland. Unfortunately I can't read/write Dutch very well, but speaking goes ok as long as its not too technical

ISC should be simple to adjust/modify to bottom out with no voltage. There is a stoppage screw that has a good bit of adjustment left in it. I'll play around with it this week and see how it goes. Otherwise I may be able to get a replacement plastic piece 3d printed.

Been doing a good bit of manual reading. The TPS is a potentiometer, but it also has a switch which closes at idle. The AFM powers the fuel pump through a convoluted relay - I need to study RC circuits again to understand how it works :/ but I'll follow up. Radiator fans are controlled by a dedicated temperature sensor, relays, and the A/C controller - no EMS involvement.

A few questions: a low-side driver is a switchable ground, and a high-side driver is a switchable voltage source? Trying to understand the hardware capabilities.
Any need to use the idle switch in the TPS?
The factory computer has the following 'extra' inputs: high-electric load, A/C clutch engagement, braking, and a speed sensor. Are any of these especially useful?
I have a voltage-flow chart for a Ford MAF similar to mine, but my stock AFM has a built in IAT. I assume it would be easier to get a new IAT, and fine-tune the Ford chart?
The stock igniter is controlled by going high to charge and low to fire (on the same wire) - will this be difficult? (May be the other way around, low to charge, high to fire - same question though)

I count the following inputs:
(analog x5) TPS, IAT, CLT, MAF, WBo2, engine position (VR), cranking (digital)
& outputs:
injector banks (x2 ground switched), igniter dwell (high? x1) and spark (low? x1), ISC (PWM x1)

Anything obvious that I'm missing?

[Thommm]

Nice! Where do you live? I live near Zwolle.

The low side drivers can only connect the connected thing(ignition/injector/nitrous) to ground, if they are not operated they don't connect to anything, they are "floating". The high/low driver can connect the connected thing to both ground or power. Were the other one just releases the cable (electrically not connected), this driver pulls it to either 12V or 0V. You don't need the voltage chart, could be handy as a base map but actual values in the ECU are changed during tuning anyway. You also don't need the idle switch in the TPS, the potentiometer is enough. An external IAT is not necessary as long as you are not running a turbo. Assuming the MAF is before the turbo, the IAT will not be valid because the turbo heats up the air.

[AndreyB]

igniter dwell (high? x1) and spark (low? x1), ISC (PWM x1)

Do not understand this part. Usually you control the igniter and once you turn it off, a spark happens - so it's just one channel per coil.

The unusual sensors we do not use at the moment.

[theflyingdutchp]

Ah cool! I have some family near there. I live in California now, moved here with my family when I was young.

Thanks for the explanation on the hardware! That helps a lot.

It is just the one wire to the igniter. I thought I'd have to hook it up to two separate drivers. Sorry about that

Messing with the isc now

[Thommm]

I'm soo envious, I want to live in the states as well! Might just come to that

About the ignition thing, do you have like a schematic or a name of that wire? I can do some digging to see what it is exactly. Could be that it is a wasted spark configuration and you have 2 control wires for 4 cylinders. ISC's are fun... NOT

[theflyingdutchp]

It has its ups and downs - but its nice

I've got all the schematics! Distributor/Coil, Igniter, and ECU

B-O gets 12v from the ignition switch.
G-, G1, and Ne are the VR setup.
IGF and IGT are the fire/dwell and spark confirmation signals according to a megasquirt(I know! I'm sorry ) document about a similar Toyota system. So I guess its two wires but the second isn't really needed.

And yea, that ISC stop screw is covered by a hard plastic sealant..... I'll see if I can get it off with a wire wheel. Very excited.... nope, that's a lie.


EDIT: Update on the ISC. I can get it fully closed with no voltage applied. But then 12V and 16A (desktop PSU) is not enough to counteract the force of the spring.

So two new questions...
After warmup, will an ISC normally need to open more than ~30%?
Is there any way to build a rusEfi setup as a datalogger? IE: set it up in parallel with the stock ECU, log all the values and see what its doing? Or is there a similar project that will? I'm tempted by an arduino but I don't think it will survive the voltage spikes/etc.

[kb1gtt]

perhaps of interest.

http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware:Breakout-Module/en

[theflyingdutchp]

perhaps of interest.

http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware:Breakout-Module/en

Hey thanks! I actually just ordered an arduino, going to pick up some opto isolaters and try to log the two channels.

I was looking at the Frankenso hardware and it looks like the main chip has two PWM channels. Is the one PWM limitation a software thing? Or is the board not populated for two sets of PWM?

[AndreyB]

I was looking at the Frankenso hardware and it looks like the main chip has two PWM channels. Is the one PWM limitation a software thing? Or is the board not populated for two sets of PWM?

I do not understand you, please elaborate. What do you call PWM exactly? What pins on Frankenso are related to PWM?

[theflyingdutchp]

Sorry for the delay! Busy weekend

Anyway, I shouldn't read datasheets late at night. Was looking at the main chip on the Frankenso - some or all of its timers can do PWM. Great. Lets just say I shouldn't read into things I don't understand. PWM would be Pulse Width Modulation, but I think the confusion comes from me.

So, new question if that is alright:
For the Solenoid Idle Control, could rusEfi be made to use one pin below a certain Idle position %, and another pin above that percentage?

Idle Position % < 40% then use Idle Solenoid Pin 1
Idle Position % > 40% then use Idle Solenoid Pin 2

I hope that makes some sense - having trouble explaining it TBH.

[AndreyB]

As is we do not have such logic

[theflyingdutchp]

Hmmm, that will be a large stumbling block :/ I'll be going to the J/Y tomorrow to see if there is a toyota with a two-wire ISC. Also, the rest of the datalogging parts arrived. Going to start setting that up now, might be a few days until its working though. Hopefully one of those will bring some options to the table.

[AndreyB]

Weird setup with these three wires, I am curious if anyone understand why. Two solenoids? Why?

[kb1gtt]

Could FlexIO offer some options?

[AndreyB]

Could FlexIO offer some options?

Well, it should. I guess all I need to add into FSIO http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Flexible_Logic is "current target valve position" function, and once it's there yes, the "blow 40%" and "above 40%" logic to drive PWM duty cycle would be possible.

Still curious why such a weird hardware setup, but Jared has a point - we can support it.

[theflyingdutchp]

Datalogging sucess! I must say, I felt like a pro sitting there with my laptop hooked up, tapped into the wiring harness. I know I'm not but I got a kick out of it.

Anyway. I had read that the 4age used a similar setup, and that one wire runs approximately opposite pwm than the other. Didn't want to jump to conclusions but the data says it's true. If one wire is at 60% the other is at 40%, and so on.

The 4age I read about controlled the valve by splitting the signal from the ems. One wire controlled one side. The other was inverted in hardware, and then ran the other side. So I think yall can focus on coding more exciting things! Much appreciated though!

Just for references sake, it's a single rotary solenoid with a center tap.

Still need to get a decent multimeter and measure the big injectors...

Again, thanks for all the help so far!

[Thommm]

Datalogging sucess! I must say, I felt like a pro sitting there with my laptop hooked up, tapped into the wiring harness. I know I'm not but I got a kick out of it.

Sooo true, I feel ya But if you use FSIO for Idle, were do you hook up the boost controller and the nitrous system?

[AndreyB]

Sooo true, I feel ya But if you use FSIO for Idle, were do you hook up the boost controller and the nitrous system?

there are 20 channels of FSIO, so not an issue

[kb1gtt]

I was going to say connect them to the ignition key, such that they are on when the key is on. After all isn't that when you want it to go.

[theflyingdutchp]

I always thought you clamped the wastegate shut with a vice grip?

Side note, can FSIO handle meth/water injection PWM?

[Thommm]

I always thought you clamped the wastegate shut with a vice grip?

Side note, can FSIO handle meth/water injection PWM?

Hahahahaha, fuck boost creep xD I don't see why can't, if you use one of the two FSIO tables, I'm gonna find out soon enough

[AndreyB]

Side note, can FSIO handle meth/water injection PWM?

I do not know what kind of logic this requires but FSIO is well,,, Pretty flexible Currently has two 8x8 tables but a couple more could be added once needed.