[help needed] Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
Hello from CT in the US.
The Subaru EG33 was only found in the 92-97 SVX and only mated to an automatic transmission.
There are many people including myself looking for a standalone ECU solution that is open source or at least less than $600 dollars.
However I we need full sequential injection and spark for a 6 cylinder engine and this seems to be a stumbling block for most open source solutions.
Is this something that rusEFI can handle?
I did search but couldn't find anew example of a full sequential 6 cylinder.
The Subaru EG33 was only found in the 92-97 SVX and only mated to an automatic transmission.
There are many people including myself looking for a standalone ECU solution that is open source or at least less than $600 dollars.
However I we need full sequential injection and spark for a 6 cylinder engine and this seems to be a stumbling block for most open source solutions.
Is this something that rusEFI can handle?
I did search but couldn't find anew example of a full sequential 6 cylinder.
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
yes, absolutely. 101%.sleepingAwake wrote:we need full sequential injection and spark for a 6 cylinder engine and this seems to be a stumbling block for most open source solutions.
Is this something that rusEFI can handle?
Unfortunately the inline-6 bmw and v8 dodge ram on the official car list were both batches, because their sensors were on the crank. But I just know for a fact that we can do 6 cylinders full sequential - obviously if you have a cam sensor.
Where are you located?
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
Full sequential on 6 cylinders is not an issue- neither is ignition.
No idea about CAM/Crank triggers on that engine- that would be the only potentially difficult part I can think of.
Is there a forum where you guys hang out? Any links to installations of other aftermarket ECUs we can learn from? Schematics?
Welcome to the world of rusefi!
No idea about CAM/Crank triggers on that engine- that would be the only potentially difficult part I can think of.
Is there a forum where you guys hang out? Any links to installations of other aftermarket ECUs we can learn from? Schematics?
Welcome to the world of rusefi!
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
Just added 1_6_3_2_5_4 as a firing order option.
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
Thanks for the fast reply!
I'm located in northeastern CT near Rhode Island.
The Eg33 has two crank angle sensors and a cam angle sensor. COP with a separate ignitor.
There are a couple svx forums to check out. Here's a link to a specific post on the workings of the sensors. http://www.svxworldforums.com/view_post.php?post_id=57914
And here's another svx forum http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/
Honestly those are kind of dead now though.
I should also mention the EG33 is a popular engine to swap into other Subaru's and VW's.
I'm located in northeastern CT near Rhode Island.
The Eg33 has two crank angle sensors and a cam angle sensor. COP with a separate ignitor.
There are a couple svx forums to check out. Here's a link to a specific post on the workings of the sensors. http://www.svxworldforums.com/view_post.php?post_id=57914
And here's another svx forum http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/
Honestly those are kind of dead now though.
I should also mention the EG33 is a popular engine to swap into other Subaru's and VW's.
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
I am only aware of two un-soldered boards in CT, your chance to be the first one!sleepingAwake wrote:I'm located in northeastern CT near Rhode Island.
EG33 is the one with over-heating issues right? In Lemons a Forester with EG33 (three or four of these) did not do well The guy who build my Lemons miata engine used to have an SVX.
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
I found both crank trigger wheels online (the 1-2-3 one is quite funky!). But no CAM trigger so far. Any idea what it looks like?
Crank triggers:
Edit:
Found an explanation- looks like the CAM gives a single pulse every 720deg. So not too hard to read. From a HW standpoint frankenso only has two trigger inputs as standard. A third would have to be added. But I think we may be able to get away with reading just one of the crank triggers- I don't think we need both....
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f72/1955054-post24.html?s=9fb7e9e2d019e3c42968908b5d82176b
Crank triggers:
Edit:
Found an explanation- looks like the CAM gives a single pulse every 720deg. So not too hard to read. From a HW standpoint frankenso only has two trigger inputs as standard. A third would have to be added. But I think we may be able to get away with reading just one of the crank triggers- I don't think we need both....
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f72/1955054-post24.html?s=9fb7e9e2d019e3c42968908b5d82176b
Last edited by stefanst on Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
But why?!sleepingAwake wrote:The Eg33 has two crank angle sensors
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
I guess ye olde stock ECU just needed a bit more assurance that we got things right. I think we can get away easy by just reading the CAM sensor and one of the crank sensors.russian wrote:But why?!
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
The cam sensor can be found on the drivers side lower camshaft.
The "teeth" so to speak are molded on the camshaft itself.
There are pics of its location in this thread http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39128
The "teeth" so to speak are molded on the camshaft itself.
There are pics of its location in this thread http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39128
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
They do have over heating issues at high rpm and high horsepower. However some other smart people figured it out. Enlarging the thermostat housing to 50mm and moving the thermostat to the upper hose solves the problem. The problem being the pump sucks so hard at high rpm it pulls a vacuum causing airlock.russian wrote:I am only aware of two un-soldered boards in CT, your chance to be the first one!sleepingAwake wrote:I'm located in northeastern CT near Rhode Island.
EG33 is the one with over-heating issues right? In Lemons a Forester with EG33 (three or four of these) did not do well The guy who build my Lemons miata engine used to have an SVX.
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
Yep. Once the Forester people told our guy they did not apply the whatever over-heating fix he knew how it would go - and that's exactly how it went. Not high HP, just endurance racing.sleepingAwake wrote:They do have over heating issues at high rpm and high horsepower. However some other smart people figured it out. Enlarging the thermostat housing to 50mm and moving the thermostat to the upper hose solves the problem. The problem being the pump sucks so hard at high rpm it pulls a vacuum causing airlock.
I do not have any assembled boards in stock and would not have for at least a month. Do you have or do you know anyone with some soldering skills?
How do we get you on board to try this thingy of ours?
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
Does having a hot air station and prior skill in populating boards count?russian wrote: Do you have or do you know anyone with some soldering skills?
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
I like these keywords. https://www.tindie.com/products/russian/frankenso-04-diy-kit-/sleepingAwake wrote:Does having a hot air station and prior skill in populating boards count?
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
I didnt say I liked it.russian wrote:I like these keywords. https://www.tindie.com/products/russian/frankenso-04-diy-kit-/sleepingAwake wrote:Does having a hot air station and prior skill in populating boards count?
But it looks like if I want to try this system there really isnt another way.
Before I pull the trigger does it need 3 daughterboards a dongle and a hardware key to make it capable of running sequential cop/igniter and sequential fuel on a flat 6 platform?
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
Also I'm not as smart as I sound.
Mostly just a hobbyist with no formal training and a little education. I know a little about everything but not a lot about one thing.
Mostly just a hobbyist with no formal training and a little education. I know a little about everything but not a lot about one thing.
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
This really sounds like some sort of PTSD?...sleepingAwake wrote:Before I pull the trigger does it need 3 daughterboards a dongle and a hardware key to make it capable of running sequential cop/igniter and sequential fuel on a flat 6 platform?
kit + brain board + plug if you want it + case if you want a case + resistors if you do not have a collection of 0805
It's OK. It's going to be fine.
Please plan a WBO sensor+controller (~$150) and TunerStudio license to use fuel auto-tune (rusEfi auto-tune is still nowhere), ~$70
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
Ok I'm gonna throw down the gauntlet now.
I'm only interested if this will also support the addition of a turbo down the line.
I'm only interested if this will also support the addition of a turbo down the line.
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
Well, define "support the addition of a turbo"sleepingAwake wrote:support the addition of a turbo down the line.
Between the blue Miata and white 626 I believe we have some thousand miles on non-OEM turbo cars.
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
I'm going to stop asking questions and bothering you nice folks and spend tomorrow studying rusEFI.
Maybe organize my thoughts a little more.
Maybe organize my thoughts a little more.
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
Hello and welcome along.
Have you found the wiki? Just in case you have not here's a link http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware_Frankenso_board Take note it has 12X low side drivers, you would consume 6 for injectors, which leaves 6 more for turbo, fan control, dash light, etc. Also it has 6 igniter drivers, so you could have individual spark control.
Does your Auto trans require any interfacing with the ECU? I'm assuming your auto trans works off vacuum hoses, or other mechanical technologies. However some times they need a tach signal, or some other signal. Unless you tell me differently, I'm assuming your trans does not need ECU signals. Let us know if that is not a correct assumption.
No worries about the formal training. Keep in mind that Steve Jobs had a high school degree, and only got an honorary higher education degree when some months before he died.
About the turbo control, we would need a bit more information about the circuit before we can fully say that yes it's supported. However it probably is or can be supported. I'm guessing you would need baro pressure, low side solenoid driver, and MAP pressure sensor which can handle boost pressures. Those can all be added to Frankenso with out any additional modules. Just need the sensors wired up.
To me it sounds like you would be good with a native Frankenso, plus STM32 brain board, and that's about it. The only item that I think might desire an add-on module is the ignition. We have ignition drivers, but we do not have the igniters themselves. Most coil packs these days have the igniters internal to the coil, and the Frankenso ignition drivers can drive that with out add additional stuff. If your coils do not already have the igniters, we can suggest some external options, like the J701, or we have a break out board that has been successfully used as well.
The programming cable is a standard USB cable. You probably have one kicking around for your camera / phone.
Do you have solder paste? I like this stuff that Cash Olsen sells http://kd5ssj.com/solderpaste/smt-tools-and-process I would suggest getting some extra needle tips. I find the tips dry out and it can be a pain to clean them. Probably worth the extra couple bucks to avoid that cleaning labor.
I would suggest drawing a schematic. as well I would suggest looking closely at the ignition. Pizza box schematic would be fine for now. If you want to make your schematic electronically, I could make a couple suggestions. However electronically we don't know of any reasonably easy approaches for low $. They are all kind of blah and labor intensive.
Does the engine currently run? If so you might want to consider migrating it over 1 cyl at a time. If you go that route, you might find this board of interest. http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=454
Have you found the wiki? Just in case you have not here's a link http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware_Frankenso_board Take note it has 12X low side drivers, you would consume 6 for injectors, which leaves 6 more for turbo, fan control, dash light, etc. Also it has 6 igniter drivers, so you could have individual spark control.
Does your Auto trans require any interfacing with the ECU? I'm assuming your auto trans works off vacuum hoses, or other mechanical technologies. However some times they need a tach signal, or some other signal. Unless you tell me differently, I'm assuming your trans does not need ECU signals. Let us know if that is not a correct assumption.
No worries about the formal training. Keep in mind that Steve Jobs had a high school degree, and only got an honorary higher education degree when some months before he died.
About the turbo control, we would need a bit more information about the circuit before we can fully say that yes it's supported. However it probably is or can be supported. I'm guessing you would need baro pressure, low side solenoid driver, and MAP pressure sensor which can handle boost pressures. Those can all be added to Frankenso with out any additional modules. Just need the sensors wired up.
To me it sounds like you would be good with a native Frankenso, plus STM32 brain board, and that's about it. The only item that I think might desire an add-on module is the ignition. We have ignition drivers, but we do not have the igniters themselves. Most coil packs these days have the igniters internal to the coil, and the Frankenso ignition drivers can drive that with out add additional stuff. If your coils do not already have the igniters, we can suggest some external options, like the J701, or we have a break out board that has been successfully used as well.
The programming cable is a standard USB cable. You probably have one kicking around for your camera / phone.
Do you have solder paste? I like this stuff that Cash Olsen sells http://kd5ssj.com/solderpaste/smt-tools-and-process I would suggest getting some extra needle tips. I find the tips dry out and it can be a pain to clean them. Probably worth the extra couple bucks to avoid that cleaning labor.
I would suggest drawing a schematic. as well I would suggest looking closely at the ignition. Pizza box schematic would be fine for now. If you want to make your schematic electronically, I could make a couple suggestions. However electronically we don't know of any reasonably easy approaches for low $. They are all kind of blah and labor intensive.
Does the engine currently run? If so you might want to consider migrating it over 1 cyl at a time. If you go that route, you might find this board of interest. http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=454
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
I do have a TCU and there is some communication that happens between the TCU and ECU.
Something to do with load and rpm I believe. But I think some people have had luck disconnecting it.
Solder paste won't be an issue. I'll find something suitable on Amazon.
The SVX does have a separate ignitor. Basically a transistor array. The dwell will need to be set at <3ms I think.
For a turbo I would need a 4bar map sensor and a way to control a boost solenoid. Probably more but I still haven't had a chance to sit down and form a list of needs and wants.
Something to do with load and rpm I believe. But I think some people have had luck disconnecting it.
Solder paste won't be an issue. I'll find something suitable on Amazon.
The SVX does have a separate ignitor. Basically a transistor array. The dwell will need to be set at <3ms I think.
For a turbo I would need a 4bar map sensor and a way to control a boost solenoid. Probably more but I still haven't had a chance to sit down and form a list of needs and wants.
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
I may have just purchased a Frankenso kit. Just sayin
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
Do you have a schematic that shows the TCU? We might be able to do a reasonable guess about what signals it needs.
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
A very nice and intelligent gent from England had some level of success reverse engineering the tcu and ecu.kb1gtt wrote:Do you have a schematic that shows the TCU? We might be able to do a reasonable guess about what signals it needs.
Heres a link to the work he did on the tcu http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/tcuinfo.html
And i just found a long pdf file with schematics. http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/Boone/5308.PDF
Id grab just the pages with the schematic but im working on a tablet.
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
Last page of the manual seems to show no ECU connections. I see Impreza's had ECU connections, TPS and 4 other wires. However I don't see anything for the SVX.
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy
- AndreyB
- Site Admin
- Posts: 14331
- Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
- Location: Jersey City
- Github Username: rusefillc
- Slack: Andrey B
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
What year is your SVX? I can talk to my guy about a nice wiring diagram.
Thank you for the http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/tcureverse.html link! Great stuff.
Thank you for the http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/tcureverse.html link! Great stuff.
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
I have a 1995 SVX. Thanksrussian wrote:What year is your SVX? I can talk to my guy about a nice wiring diagram.
Thank you for the http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/tcureverse.html link! Great stuff.
-
- Posts: 113
- Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:15 am
- Location: CT
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
Sorry about that. Its in Fig 12. They show the TCU connections and the connections to the ECU.kb1gtt wrote:Last page of the manual seems to show no ECU connections. I see Impreza's had ECU connections, TPS and 4 other wires. However I don't see anything for the SVX.
Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33
I see TPS plus 3 other wires. We'll have to see what magical delights we can learn from the engine schematic.
- Attachments
-
- Capture.PNG (60.71 KiB) Viewed 19564 times
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy