[help needed] Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

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sleepingAwake
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Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by sleepingAwake »

Hello from CT in the US.

The Subaru EG33 was only found in the 92-97 SVX and only mated to an automatic transmission.

There are many people including myself looking for a standalone ECU solution that is open source or at least less than $600 dollars.

However I we need full sequential injection and spark for a 6 cylinder engine and this seems to be a stumbling block for most open source solutions.
Is this something that rusEFI can handle?
I did search but couldn't find anew example of a full sequential 6 cylinder.
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AndreyB
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by AndreyB »

sleepingAwake wrote:we need full sequential injection and spark for a 6 cylinder engine and this seems to be a stumbling block for most open source solutions.
Is this something that rusEFI can handle?
yes, absolutely. 101%.

Unfortunately the inline-6 bmw and v8 dodge ram on the official car list were both batches, because their sensors were on the crank. But I just know for a fact that we can do 6 cylinders full sequential - obviously if you have a cam sensor.

Where are you located?
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by stefanst »

Full sequential on 6 cylinders is not an issue- neither is ignition.

No idea about CAM/Crank triggers on that engine- that would be the only potentially difficult part I can think of.

Is there a forum where you guys hang out? Any links to installations of other aftermarket ECUs we can learn from? Schematics?

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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by AndreyB »

Just added 1_6_3_2_5_4 as a firing order option.
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sleepingAwake
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by sleepingAwake »

Thanks for the fast reply!
I'm located in northeastern CT near Rhode Island.

The Eg33 has two crank angle sensors and a cam angle sensor. COP with a separate ignitor.

There are a couple svx forums to check out. Here's a link to a specific post on the workings of the sensors. http://www.svxworldforums.com/view_post.php?post_id=57914

And here's another svx forum http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/
Honestly those are kind of dead now though.

I should also mention the EG33 is a popular engine to swap into other Subaru's and VW's.
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by AndreyB »

sleepingAwake wrote:I'm located in northeastern CT near Rhode Island.
I am only aware of two un-soldered boards in CT, your chance to be the first one!

EG33 is the one with over-heating issues right? In Lemons a Forester with EG33 (three or four of these) did not do well :( The guy who build my Lemons miata engine used to have an SVX.
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by stefanst »

I found both crank trigger wheels online (the 1-2-3 one is quite funky!). But no CAM trigger so far. Any idea what it looks like?

Crank triggers:
Image
Image

Edit:
Found an explanation- looks like the CAM gives a single pulse every 720deg. So not too hard to read. From a HW standpoint frankenso only has two trigger inputs as standard. A third would have to be added. But I think we may be able to get away with reading just one of the crank triggers- I don't think we need both....
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f72/1955054-post24.html?s=9fb7e9e2d019e3c42968908b5d82176b
Last edited by stefanst on Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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AndreyB
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by AndreyB »

sleepingAwake wrote:The Eg33 has two crank angle sensors
But why?!
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by stefanst »

russian wrote:But why?!
I guess ye olde stock ECU just needed a bit more assurance that we got things right. I think we can get away easy by just reading the CAM sensor and one of the crank sensors.
sleepingAwake
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by sleepingAwake »

The cam sensor can be found on the drivers side lower camshaft.

The "teeth" so to speak are molded on the camshaft itself.

There are pics of its location in this thread http://www.subaru-svx.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39128
sleepingAwake
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by sleepingAwake »

russian wrote:
sleepingAwake wrote:I'm located in northeastern CT near Rhode Island.
I am only aware of two un-soldered boards in CT, your chance to be the first one!

EG33 is the one with over-heating issues right? In Lemons a Forester with EG33 (three or four of these) did not do well :( The guy who build my Lemons miata engine used to have an SVX.
They do have over heating issues at high rpm and high horsepower. However some other smart people figured it out. Enlarging the thermostat housing to 50mm and moving the thermostat to the upper hose solves the problem. The problem being the pump sucks so hard at high rpm it pulls a vacuum causing airlock.
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AndreyB
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by AndreyB »

sleepingAwake wrote:They do have over heating issues at high rpm and high horsepower. However some other smart people figured it out. Enlarging the thermostat housing to 50mm and moving the thermostat to the upper hose solves the problem. The problem being the pump sucks so hard at high rpm it pulls a vacuum causing airlock.
Yep. Once the Forester people told our guy they did not apply the whatever over-heating fix he knew how it would go - and that's exactly how it went. Not high HP, just endurance racing.

I do not have any assembled boards in stock and would not have for at least a month. Do you have or do you know anyone with some soldering skills? :)

How do we get you on board to try this thingy of ours?
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sleepingAwake
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by sleepingAwake »

russian wrote: Do you have or do you know anyone with some soldering skills? :)
Does having a hot air station and prior skill in populating boards count?
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by AndreyB »

sleepingAwake wrote:Does having a hot air station and prior skill in populating boards count?
I like these keywords. https://www.tindie.com/products/russian/frankenso-04-diy-kit-/
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sleepingAwake
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by sleepingAwake »

russian wrote:
sleepingAwake wrote:Does having a hot air station and prior skill in populating boards count?
I like these keywords. https://www.tindie.com/products/russian/frankenso-04-diy-kit-/
I didnt say I liked it. :D

But it looks like if I want to try this system there really isnt another way.

Before I pull the trigger does it need 3 daughterboards a dongle and a hardware key to make it capable of running sequential cop/igniter and sequential fuel on a flat 6 platform?
sleepingAwake
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by sleepingAwake »

Also I'm not as smart as I sound.
Mostly just a hobbyist with no formal training and a little education. I know a little about everything but not a lot about one thing.
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by AndreyB »

sleepingAwake wrote:Before I pull the trigger does it need 3 daughterboards a dongle and a hardware key to make it capable of running sequential cop/igniter and sequential fuel on a flat 6 platform?
This really sounds like some sort of PTSD?...

kit + brain board + plug if you want it + case if you want a case + resistors if you do not have a collection of 0805

It's OK. It's going to be fine.
Please plan a WBO sensor+controller (~$150) and TunerStudio license to use fuel auto-tune (rusEfi auto-tune is still nowhere), ~$70
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sleepingAwake
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by sleepingAwake »

Ok I'm gonna throw down the gauntlet now.
I'm only interested if this will also support the addition of a turbo down the line.
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

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sleepingAwake wrote:support the addition of a turbo down the line.
Well, define "support the addition of a turbo" :)

Between the blue Miata and white 626 I believe we have some thousand miles on non-OEM turbo cars.
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sleepingAwake
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by sleepingAwake »

I'm going to stop asking questions and bothering you nice folks and spend tomorrow studying rusEFI.
Maybe organize my thoughts a little more.
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by kb1gtt »

Hello and welcome along.

Have you found the wiki? Just in case you have not here's a link http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware_Frankenso_board Take note it has 12X low side drivers, you would consume 6 for injectors, which leaves 6 more for turbo, fan control, dash light, etc. Also it has 6 igniter drivers, so you could have individual spark control.

Does your Auto trans require any interfacing with the ECU? I'm assuming your auto trans works off vacuum hoses, or other mechanical technologies. However some times they need a tach signal, or some other signal. Unless you tell me differently, I'm assuming your trans does not need ECU signals. Let us know if that is not a correct assumption.

No worries about the formal training. Keep in mind that Steve Jobs had a high school degree, and only got an honorary higher education degree when some months before he died.

About the turbo control, we would need a bit more information about the circuit before we can fully say that yes it's supported. However it probably is or can be supported. I'm guessing you would need baro pressure, low side solenoid driver, and MAP pressure sensor which can handle boost pressures. Those can all be added to Frankenso with out any additional modules. Just need the sensors wired up.

To me it sounds like you would be good with a native Frankenso, plus STM32 brain board, and that's about it. The only item that I think might desire an add-on module is the ignition. We have ignition drivers, but we do not have the igniters themselves. Most coil packs these days have the igniters internal to the coil, and the Frankenso ignition drivers can drive that with out add additional stuff. If your coils do not already have the igniters, we can suggest some external options, like the J701, or we have a break out board that has been successfully used as well.

The programming cable is a standard USB cable. You probably have one kicking around for your camera / phone.

Do you have solder paste? I like this stuff that Cash Olsen sells http://kd5ssj.com/solderpaste/smt-tools-and-process I would suggest getting some extra needle tips. I find the tips dry out and it can be a pain to clean them. Probably worth the extra couple bucks to avoid that cleaning labor.

I would suggest drawing a schematic. as well I would suggest looking closely at the ignition. Pizza box schematic would be fine for now. If you want to make your schematic electronically, I could make a couple suggestions. However electronically we don't know of any reasonably easy approaches for low $. They are all kind of blah and labor intensive.

Does the engine currently run? If so you might want to consider migrating it over 1 cyl at a time. If you go that route, you might find this board of interest. http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=454
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sleepingAwake
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by sleepingAwake »

I do have a TCU and there is some communication that happens between the TCU and ECU.
Something to do with load and rpm I believe. But I think some people have had luck disconnecting it.
Solder paste won't be an issue. I'll find something suitable on Amazon.
The SVX does have a separate ignitor. Basically a transistor array. The dwell will need to be set at <3ms I think.
For a turbo I would need a 4bar map sensor and a way to control a boost solenoid. Probably more but I still haven't had a chance to sit down and form a list of needs and wants.
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by sleepingAwake »

I may have just purchased a Frankenso kit. Just sayin
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by kb1gtt »

Do you have a schematic that shows the TCU? We might be able to do a reasonable guess about what signals it needs.
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sleepingAwake
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by sleepingAwake »

kb1gtt wrote:Do you have a schematic that shows the TCU? We might be able to do a reasonable guess about what signals it needs.
A very nice and intelligent gent from England had some level of success reverse engineering the tcu and ecu.
Heres a link to the work he did on the tcu http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/tcuinfo.html

And i just found a long pdf file with schematics. http://www.subaru-svx.net/photos/files/Boone/5308.PDF

Id grab just the pages with the schematic but im working on a tablet.
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by kb1gtt »

Last page of the manual seems to show no ECU connections. I see Impreza's had ECU connections, TPS and 4 other wires. However I don't see anything for the SVX.
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by AndreyB »

What year is your SVX? I can talk to my guy about a nice wiring diagram.

Thank you for the http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/tcureverse.html link! Great stuff.
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sleepingAwake
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by sleepingAwake »

russian wrote:What year is your SVX? I can talk to my guy about a nice wiring diagram.

Thank you for the http://www.alcyone.org.uk/ssm/tcureverse.html link! Great stuff.
I have a 1995 SVX. Thanks
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

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kb1gtt wrote:Last page of the manual seems to show no ECU connections. I see Impreza's had ECU connections, TPS and 4 other wires. However I don't see anything for the SVX.
Sorry about that. Its in Fig 12. They show the TCU connections and the connections to the ECU.
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Re: Looking for a solution for the Subaru EG33

Post by kb1gtt »

I see TPS plus 3 other wires. We'll have to see what magical delights we can learn from the engine schematic.
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