FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Engine out to change the leaking head gaskets and take care of a few other things while its out.
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I'm going to wrap the headers to control the heat in the engine bay better and see where that gets me before I look at moving the coils, which is best done engine in anyway.

I'm also switching from 308 motor mounts to testarossa mounts. The 308 engine is a flat or 180 degree crank which helps in make more hp than a normal 90 degree V8 crank, but shakes a lot more so they use special motor mounts the let the engine sit on springs, but then there needs to be a torque arm and that is a problem for me as I have no place on the engine to attach it and its ugly so I don't have it, meaning it isn't actually very safe to drive the car as-is. A 12 cyl is quite smooth so the TR mount are fairy rigid rubber mounts so no torque arm needed...just need to make them fit. I guess its good to be on to problems only running cars have :)
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

I wrapped the exhaust so hopefully this fixes the heat in the engine bay issue. I'm going to try hosing it down with high temp paint to control the fibers and make it look a little better.
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

If anyone following along has been wanting a V12 308 of their own this car
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http://www.exoticcarsofhouston.com/Details/X023499/1978-ferrari-308-gts
Is on the market. Just moved from the Huston dealer to an Atlanta dealer who is sorting a few little things before re-listing it. Its an older 365 engine so maybe 325-350hp?
mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Can you spot the cylinders that were running on coolant?
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

The stuff on the pistons is goo....assembly lube, running rich and such.  Carb cleaner took it right off
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On the bottom of the gasket the compression mark make it pretty that on the sides it the flame ring not gasket material trying to make the fluid seal...which clearly doesn't work, guess there was a reason the factory used an 81mm bore not 86mm...oops. Sealant on the gasket will hopefully fix this
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I did recheck the cylinder protrusion and all readings on this bank were .0015-.0030", so right were I left them.
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Quick update. I settled on aviation sealant to try to get the heads sealed
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Then I made some block off plates to seal it up the hole and pressure test before moving on with assemble
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With just air it still leaks about 1/2 psi/min but with coolant its at 18 hours now and no change on the pressure gauge which seems a very good result. ... so this evening reassembly will begin.  I  still need to fix the motor mounts and the shifter shaft leak before it goes back in but its cold outside and will be for a few more weeks so I'm not in a huge hurry to be out in the driveway tuning so a few more weeks work is fine I guess. 

Funny how my 2-3 week project is what, 3 weeks in? ....and still 3+ weeks from finished. 
mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

running again...I think its fixed.


1400-5200 rpm, oil pres at 75-115 but pig rich...looks like I forgot to connec trthe CLT and the ECU was adding 60% more fuel thinking the temp was -20C
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TBs a little out of sync bank to bank but I guess that's expected after having everything apart
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But it looks like all 12 were on as the misfire was seeing anything and all 4 NBO2 are showing rich and the cyl MAP was doing its thing it looks like and trying to even out the lambda readings. Hopefully I too will be test driving soon.
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

The last throttle blip is 9k rpm then it ran out of gas before I could try for 11 ...its frikin loud

mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Still fighting head gaskets so no dyno numbers yet but I was pretty happy with this result on getting it to idle



This was one of my biggest tuning fears but it seems to be working fine. Its at like 720-730 rpm in the video, original factory spec for all these engines (308, 400, TR) was 1000rpm. A buddy who works on them routine sets them to 750-800 and this easily sits below that so as good or better than stock idle using cams with 20 degree more duration (@0.050" lift), ports that flow about 70% more, and 54mm ITBs so this is much better than I'd hoped for.

Not sure how much progress I'll make toward a dyno day with winter about here....but if the head gaskets hold this time....
mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

one more video. At no time in the video does the throttle go past 40% or MAP go above 65kPA, yet that is enough to provoke 1st and 2nd gear rolling burnouts ..its got some power.

mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

I'll share this about cold start and idle as its maybe a little different from what you guys do and for sure the verdict is still out on whether its good or not as I still have a way to go . Also I'm not sure if the way I set up the ECU up for this is a good idea or more trouble than its worth. This is the last mostly cold start, CLT was 30C
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It cranks about 1 sec while I'm opening the throttle slowly which richens the cranking mixture (because things aren't set right yet) then cylinders start to fire but it looks like I wasn't convinced they were all on so a throttle blip at 14 sec then it settle into idle at 16 sec

What I have is 3 tables. There is the main VE table and on the left it a 300 rpm column. This cranks at 150 so that the 70% is what is used until its running I was originally planning idle at 1000 and stall saver setting at 700, I need to move those. Also I wasn't expecting the 45kPa idle or quite so linear a MAP so I have too many MAP rows up top and not enough down low. There is no limit to how many row or columns I can add to a table in this ECU but I like to be a bit strategic so I don't waste time tuning stuff that doesn't matter and need to move some stuff around and maybe remove some. But for starting it is the 1 row on the left.
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Then the Coolant correction table. I have it setup with an RPM axis but haven't messed with that yet, just temp. Its a 70C t'stat so correction at 70/80 kind of needs to be by default. I'm still roughing this in and if I mess with the VE table then this is wrong again.

Last I added a start enrich table that is like a prime and adds fuel based on revolutions and coolant temp. Again I'm just starting to rough this in because before this can be setup up right the engine has to right at whatever temperature I'm trying to start it at. Its a slow process.

I'm also using spark timing for start and then idle which kind of buggered some of my earlier startup fuel settings. Same as the VE table, cranking is the 1 column on the left. It kicks back if I go above 10 degrees but then once it starts I need to pull the timing back or I can't get the rpm below 1800 or so. I need to add of resolution around idle but right now I start pulling timing at 2000 and below and hold ot steady around idle rpm which is the only way I've ever found to get a nice steady idle like in the video I posted.
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AndreyB
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by AndreyB »

Is this an "always" sale or a real deal?
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

AndreyB wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:34 pm
Is this an "always" sale or a real deal?
Always sale as far as I know. Also any AEM infinity will also do, which is what I did with a unit I got on ebay. You can just register the serial number and get access to the enginelab software which is what AEM used to created their products. Its kind of like what you guys started doing with your luna I think but with this everything at the logic level is built using that tool so when you load enginelab you wipe the AEM model and need to create your own so everything I post is something I created, they call it the "model" which looks like this and everything here I added
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Down at the bottom in a gray section are the low level items like the AN pins...I can call them and use them in the model but they can't really be edited.
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So I can mostly make it do whatever I want without actually knowing how to program very well.
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AndreyB
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by AndreyB »

Yep, Infinity Series 7 30-7101

And somehow the market does not seem to care about this :( Too few people need that level of control I guess.
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

AndreyB wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:35 pm
Yep, Infinity Series 7 30-7101

And somehow the market does not seem to care about this :( Too few people need that level of control I guess.
Its too hard for most people I think because you start with nothing. There was talk about a library anybody could pull from but its just never happened so everybody starts with nothing and their sales are mainly though AEM.
mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

AndreyB wrote:
Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:35 pm
Yep, Infinity Series 7 30-7101

And somehow the market does not seem to care about this :( Too few people need that level of control I guess.
So Holley bought AEM and it looks like they are dumping some slow movers...like the infinity 358 for $356.

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/fuel_injection/aem_efi/parts/30-7114?utm_term=&utm_campaign=Google+Shopping+-+AEM+Electronics+-+Non-Brand&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&hsa_acc=7848552874&hsa_cam=17242278644&hsa_grp=139174297880&hsa_ad=597446716969&hsa_src=g&hsa_tgt=pla-1654336976060&hsa_kw=&hsa_mt=&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gclid=CjwKCAjwiOCgBhAgEiwAjv5whBmTqGDf06eWJVHjMuscbC2646jzi1OEuaxorkFWABq0zrAQn3HXIxoC-RwQAvD_BwE
The Infinity 358 (PN 30-7114) is designed to control 2V and 4V Ford Modular engines, late-model Dodge Hemi engines and other late-model, individual direct-drive "dumb" coil V8 engines with port injection using 8 high impedance injectors.
Its loaded with firmware specific to a few engines but the 3 series HW is all the same - 8 fuel, 8 spark, 9 analog in, 3 AN Temp, 2 knock, CAN and you can load the enginelab FW and set it up to do whatever.....unless they are shutting down the ECU business and bought it for the EV stuff
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by AndreyB »

Yep, an amazing deal!
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mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

An amazing deal that it appears to mean AEM is out of the ECU business as all the other part numbers show as unavailable anyplace that used to sell them. It doesn't appear to impact stuff like the wideband controllers, CAN support stuff, or the new line of EV controllers

Not sure if that means EngineLab is also existing the ECU space and I need to find a new favorite. The website appears to accept orders...sent an email so waiting to hear.
mk e
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Re: FrankenFerrari - V12 Ferrari 308

Post by mk e »

Just discovered Bosch bought MoTeC last summer but unlike AEM/Holley it seems to be business as usual over there.

I also saw they are selling the M1 series ecu as VCUs into the EV space or at least that's what it looks like.
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