[rusEfi] 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by AndreyB »

Spoke to @ssmith and he has agreed to be the brain behind some Passat GDI progress. Plan is for me to park 760 at @abricosvw, take Passat to my garage and attempt to start it again under rusEFI maybe even this year!

Anyone excited about GDI specifically please consider throwing money at me.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by Zeiss »

Hey Andrey,

this sounds good! Do you still want me to create some PT-CAN and LocalCAN logs from the 760?
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by AndreyB »

Zeiss wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 9:58 am

this sounds good! Do you still want me to create some PT-CAN and LocalCAN logs from the 760?
Absolutely! Both are parts of overall plan to drive 760, Passat is preparation.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by Bluepower »

AndreyB wrote:
Fri Dec 10, 2021 3:27 am
Anyone excited about GDI specifically please consider throwing money at me.
don't think I can make a substantial contribution, but even small donations can help, I think?
Where can I send mine to?
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by AndreyB »

There is paypal rusefillc@gmail.com for one time and patreon.com/rusefi for patronage
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by Bluepower »

done buddy!!
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by AndreyB »

Bluepower wrote:
Sun Dec 12, 2021 1:59 pm
done buddy!!
Thank you, that shows that people care :) that means a lot.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by Zeiss »

You'v got one patron more :)
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by AndreyB »

I hope to swap 760 for BPY tomorrow and play a bit with new GDI control strategy!

Just revived B6 MRE configuration https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=794
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by AndreyB »

I do not recall that puddle of oil last year. No car likes to sit for a year outside?
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by AndreyB »

fresh firmware insisted on redundant TPS and PPS, got that sorted out and took a log with configuration Scott has provided

https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=526
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by AndreyB »

https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=796

We've attempted to go from 0 to 240 degrees peak pump angle. No running engine so far.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by ssmith »

Why is only one injector firing per cycle? That logic might work on port injection but doesn't work on direct injection. Each injector should be firing independently.

Still doesn't explain why we couldn't get the HPFP working, though I'm still suspect of it saying "NO PIN." Are you sure that isn't a big red flag?

Might be worth doing future tests with the injectors unplugged so we can separate HPFP control (at least build up) from injectors. Also prevents us from flooding the cyl walls why we flail around typing in random #s hoping for success.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by mck1117 »

Yeah, something is very wrong with your config.

Injection mode -> Sequential
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by mck1117 »

Your injector flow is also wrong, iirc these injectors flow more like 1000cc/min at 100 bar (10000 kpa)

See this post: https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38235#p38235
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by mck1117 »

Please get the engine to run without HPFP control first. I know for a fact my Focus idled (and drove a little bit) just fine with the high pressure pump unplugged completely.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by ssmith »

mck1117 wrote:
Sat Jan 01, 2022 4:49 am
Please get the engine to run without HPFP control first. I know for a fact my Focus idled (and drove a little bit) just fine with the high pressure pump unplugged completely.
I thought the motor was running before with the original HPFP logic?
https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38819#p38819
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by mck1117 »

ssmith wrote:
Sat Jan 01, 2022 6:39 am
mck1117 wrote:
Sat Jan 01, 2022 4:49 am
Please get the engine to run without HPFP control first. I know for a fact my Focus idled (and drove a little bit) just fine with the high pressure pump unplugged completely.
I thought the motor was running before with the original HPFP logic?
https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38819#p38819
Correct - it was (sort of). It's worth taking the HPFP out of the equation to get the car to run reliably first.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by AndreyB »

It runs

It does not start reliably, it would not keep running, it requires massive TPS angle to keep running while it's running, it stops with a scary bang but it run for a few seconds a number of times.

pump angle loves jumping between 0 and 120 does not look right.

same time only injection changed to individual and flow rate changed to 1200 and 1000 in different runs

https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=531
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=532
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=533
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by ssmith »

Not good seeing the pressure go to 125bar and then just stay there.

Ideally I'd love to see all the internal variables logged.

fuel_requested_percent
fuel_requested_percent_pi
m_I_sum_percent
m_pressureTarget_kPa

I would try dropping the P and I terms by a factor of 10 (P=0.03, I=0.00001) which should reduce their impact and smooth things out.

If you're having trouble getting it to stay running and you're getting loud bangs you probably have too much fuel. Fiddle with the VE ratio to get it running better.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by ssmith »

BTW can you configure the intake/manifold air and coolant temp sensors? They're reading 0C. It helps to have a sensible value there for accurate air flow calculations. Coolant temp may contribute here depending how you have charge air temp calculated. I guess you're error is only about 10% since 20K error / 273K is < 10%, but still it should be an easy fix assuming the wiring is connected.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by AndreyB »

https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=801

With lower VE it would idle just fine but looks like without high pressure. Note how on the log we get high pressure for some period and then it was gone again.

Looks like car would start if it builds high pressure, and it does NOT do it reliably. Sometimes it happens sometimes it does not happen?

I've burned the starter and burned my fingers a bit :(
I am not sure if battery is bad - will charge and load test.

https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=538
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=539
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=540


to get CLT and IAT working I would need to solder a coupe of 0402 in very risky locations :( will do that while waiting for starter to show up
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by ssmith »

AndreyB wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 12:47 am
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=801

With lower VE it would idle just fine but looks like without high pressure. Note how on the log we get high pressure for some period and then it was gone again.

Looks like car would start if it builds high pressure, and it does NOT do it reliably. Sometimes it happens sometimes it does not happen?

I've burned the starter and burned my fingers a bit :(
I am not sure if battery is bad - will charge and load test.

https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=538
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=539
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?log=540


to get CLT and IAT working I would need to solder a coupe of 0402 in very risky locations :( will do that while waiting for starter to show up
1. Don't worry about CLT and IAT then, only do it if it's easy. 0402 is a PITA :-P
2. I wonder if cranking fuel needs to be changed at all. On my car when it started unreliably I found adding fuel usually helped. Link uses different crank enrichment parameters though so I'm not sure how you'd convert them all over. Looks like you're using fixed fueling, maybe try 30 or 35 mg?
3. I know you just changed this, but I would change the I-term back to 0.0001.
4. Can you hook up an oscilloscope while you're doing this? See if the output for the HPFP stops at some point. It's possible the output driver is overheating? Or maybe this is just the software guy trying to blame hardware?
5. Along the lines of #4, can you just double check the resistance of the solenoid using a multimeter? I know you guys already decided this didn't need peak/hold drivers but good to just recheck.

I think the Angle of cam lobe is fine; maybe not ideal but it should be enough to run. Your original tune on the original algorithm (https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=287&dialog=mc33Dialog) used 120 degrees as the activation angle; that's the same as the current algorithm with a peak of 0, 3 lobes, and 100% pump requested. So we know from experience that works fine. That's what's leading me to think something else is going wrong.

I don't think it's VVT; the cam seems to jump from 359 to -360 which really is basically the same thing when taking into account 720 degree wraparound.

So all I'm left with is the output isn't doing what we want; either the driver is overheating and shutting down or the solenoid does the same? Seems odd for it to be the solenoid though.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by AndreyB »

It would probably be about five days for stuff to arrive and me to replace the starter so have time to attempt CLT/IAT repairs.

Solenoid measures 2.2 Ohms so close to 6A while officially that OUT6 is rated only for 4.5A. Yes will hook up an oscilloscope and confirm life in the wire once/if I get this vehicle to crank again.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by ssmith »

AndreyB wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:18 am
It would probably be about five days for stuff to arrive and me to replace the starter so have time to attempt CLT/IAT repairs.

Solenoid measures 2.2 Ohms so close to 6A while officially that OUT6 is rated only for 4.5A. Yes will hook up an oscilloscope and confirm life in the wire once/if I get this vehicle to crank again.
Oh bummer. Maybe next time wait longer between tests? I think we're pretty close.

Can you use the PT2001 output for HPFP? It probably requires some rewiring. I don't know if the firmware you have for it can drive the HPFP solenoid or if you have to make changes. I don't see any parameters under "GDI Dreams" to indicate peak/hold for the hpfp, so that'd have to be added too. FWIW I have peak=5A and hold=3A for my motor, so you could try that as a starting point.
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by AndreyB »

ssmith wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 6:51 am
I don't know if the firmware you have for it can drive the HPFP solenoid or if you have to make changes.
I am not the one who wrote PT2001 microcode :(

it says 'fuel pump' and that's probably something else see https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/blob/master/firmware/hw_layer/mc33816/rusefi/MicrocodeCh2/ch2.psc#L36
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by kb1gtt »

In this post, I measured OEM in the hold pattern was about 4.5 amps. The yellow trace was 2amps per vertical division. So it would appear the hold voltage is below 12v.

https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1631&start=12
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by ssmith »

kb1gtt wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 4:54 pm
In this post, I measured OEM in the hold pattern was about 4.5 amps. The yellow trace was 2amps per vertical division. So it would appear the hold voltage is below 12v.

https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1631&start=12
Is that for the injector or the hpfp? It isn't clear to me after reading through the thread. Maybe I skimmed too fast.

I think this picture is where the idea came that the hpfp solenoid didn't need PWM: https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38300#p38300
But given the logic described in NXP AN4849, p17 says:
During the Hold phase, the low-side driver is simultaneously switched on with the high-side switch connected to the V BAT
voltage. If the hold current target I HOLD is reached, the high-side driver is switched off and the current recirculates through
the diodes connected to VBAT and ground for the fixed time t HOLD_OFF . The high-side driver is then switched on again. This
cycle repeats until the SATR5 pin goes low or the internal counter reaches its terminal value (t HOLD_TOT (time out)). The End
Of Actuation is forced if no falling edge is detected on the START5 pin.
So we expect the low side to stay grounded while the high side is PWM, at least with some implementations (Link G4+ Force GDI only PWMs lowside while high side is always connected to battery).

As Andrey pointed out, the microcode you have seems to support HPFP. Makes sense since it was heavily influenced by the example code.
So it's just a matter of:

1. exposing the dram locations for the hpfp control, adding code to set them, adding config variables, etc.
2. Andrey needs to wire his HPFP + and - to the PT2001 board he has at the right spot (J12?)
3. Andrey needs to wire his MRE to the PT2001 to drive the HPFP using the START6 pin (I think?)
4. Change the config to drive high instead of driving low when activating the pump (again, I think?)
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by AndreyB »

ssmith wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 5:42 pm
exposing the dram locations for the hpfp control, adding code to set them, adding config variables, etc.
i need help with this part. Not sure if Chris @Noxz has noticed our progress yet :)
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64

Post by kb1gtt »

In my scope capture, the vertical scale is questionable. I don't trust it because I didn't calibrate verify it first. It was a quick measure and seemed to be in the ball park. I think Matt's capture says 2 amps. The big thing is that I think a 4.5 amp driver will be ok.
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