2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule #64
Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:27 am
by AndreyB
Driver side front wheel bearing or axle is not well, looks like sunroof has leaked, most lights on the dash are on - but @abricos says it sounds healthy so we start GDI project
Horizontal mounted, that looks just like my A3. Let me know how easy / hard it is to get to the ECU.
I can get you that info if you have more info what car it is
At Audi it's usually found here:
(A3 2007)
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:27 am
by kb1gtt
Both A3 and A4 are under the windshield wipers. Quit hard to reach for me. The wiper bars don't want to remove, as well I expect the harness pigtail is to short to allow me to relocate it. If I spend a couple hours digging it out from under the wipers, I'll have to spend a couple hours putting it right back where I got it from. It would be good if I had an extension cable or similar which allowed it to be relocated to a more easily accessible location. I need to drive this as it's my daily driver.
Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:09 am
by AndreyB
Grabbed some parts at a junk yard, @Abricos will hopefully make a flow test rig. The plan is to use not-so-high fuel pressure to begin with, I assume these would still spray something ?
Next step should be KIT33816FRDMEVM MC33816 Development Board - sample code seem to be doing exactly the injector control we need, I just need to get myself to spend $264.57.
Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:18 am
by kb1gtt
With 50 PSI pressure you can open and close with just 12v. You need the boost voltage when you have high pressure. Do you have a plan for generating high pressure?
Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
With 50 PSI pressure you can open and close with just 12v. You need the boost voltage when you have high pressure. Do you have a plan for generating high pressure?
You don't need the high voltage to open the injector, just to open it quickly. With DI you're in a bit of a rush to get your injection over with, so you can't wait for a 0.5ms+ opening time. Opening time on these injectors is around 100us when using the boost + peak + hold scheme. However, you do need a current limited driver or else you'll burn out the injector. They have a DC resistance of around an ohm, so at 12v they'll be dissipating around 150 watts, which would quickly melt things.
The plan is to use not-so-high fuel pressure to begin with, I assume these would still spray something ?
Yes - they will still spray something. I had the high pressure pump on my Focus fail, so it was running exclusively off of the low pressure (~80psi, in fuel tank) electric pump. The car didn't like starting and was stuck in limp mode, but still ran pretty much fine.
Since the flow thru an orifice (or group of orifices, in this case) is proportional to the square root of the pressure, you really only need to measure flow at one known pressure, can can extrapolate to a wide pressure range easily.
I'd recommend trying to start the car first without the high pressure system at all, simply using the in-tank pump. The HP pump has check valves in it such that the low pressure pump will pressurize the rail, which means its function isn't strictly necessary to run the engine. My car will actually let me (albeit with a check engine light) unplug the HP pump while the engine is running without much issue. You won't be able to make more than maybe 100 horsepower, but that's enough to putter around a little bit and convince ourselves that the injector drivers work.
Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
I'll make a separate post about the injector control specifically, but you're pretty close to what those specs mean, but not quite.
The datasheet actually describes three phases:
1) Boost: Apply 65 volts until the current reaches 13.2 amps, which should take 480us. This also gives us enough information to compute the total inductance of the injector and the wiring, which is around 2.3mH according to Bosch (which sounds like the correct order of magnitude for an injector and a few meters of wire).
2) Peak (called pick-up in the datasheet): Closed loop switch on/off to maintain 9.4 amps for the next 704us
3) Hold: Closed loop switch on/off to maintain 3.7 amps for as long as you need until the injection event is over.
It's possible to measure what the VW-provided ECU is doing injector-drive wise, but likely not necesary. That datasheet is for the same HDEV 5.x injectors found both in my Focus and your VW, so they're probably close enough (if not exactly correct).
Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:19 am
by AndreyB
A blue "Hantek CC 65 Oscilloscope Multimeter AC/DC Current Clamp Meter 65A 20KHz for Car" is ready to rock, where do we want to stick it?
Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
Posted: Sun May 24, 2020 10:27 pm
by kb1gtt
These scope traces were captured on the same but different engine. It was N31 Cyl2, the green with black wire. Current clamp was a Rigol RP1002C on a Rigol DS1054
Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
Posted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:56 pm
by AndreyB
If things go well will finally have GDI test mule at my garage tomorrow.
Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 1:14 am
by AndreyB
This test mule Passat takes up very valuable space in the garage, it cannot just sit there. I will try to make whatever progress I can make on my own but I am concerned that this project could be way over my head. If the next month turns out to be pointless head banging I would have to stop. At the moment I really need GDI help or I would have to give up and get rid of the car
One of the source of inspiration could be OEM tables but are those always named in German?
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
Sunday, 11, October, 2020,21: 10: 48: 10463-VCID:, Software version:, Protocol type: troubleshooting
3C0 907 115 F ,, 2.0l R4 / 4V TFSI 0030,
, Group A:, '101 ,,,, Group B:,' 103 ,,,, Group C:, '106
,, engine speed, engine load, Injection timing, Mass Air Flow, current, fuel pressure, adaptation value, Fuel pump Adapt. ,, Fuel rail, Electric fuel, Electric fuel, Fuel pump
, TIME, (G28) ,,, Sensor (G70), TIME, fuel pressure, regulator, fuel pump, Status, TIME, pressure (actual), Pump 1/2, Pump 3/4, Trip Time
Marker, STAMP, / min,%, ms, g / s, STAMP, mbar ,,,, STAMP, bar,% ,, s
On idle looks like 1.28ms injection time and 3.2 g/s MAF reasing
I believe I see 50.6 bar low high? fuel pressure, 49% pump duty maybe?
I do not really get 4189 mbar what is it? 4bar low pressure?
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Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:55 am
by AndreyB
At this point I have exactly zero information on how low pressure pump is controlled. Any hints would be appreciated!
PS: wiring plan
4 for SPI, plus 7 more
RSTB and DRIVEN on lowside outputs (with pullup), and the injector outputs on extra pins direct to mcu maybe hopefully, would need to do exact pin counting
Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:56 am
by mck1117
stick a scope/meter probe in the wires from the ECU to fuel pump control module?
Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule
How it works
The electric fuel pump always conveys as much fuel as
the engine requires at a particular time.
The momentary fuel pressure is measured by the fuel
pressure sender for lower pressure and sent to the
engine control unit. If this pressure deviates from the
reference pressure, the engine control unit sends an
appropriate PWM signal (frequency 20 Hz) to the
fuel pump control unit. The control unit sends a PWM
control signal (frequency 20 kHz) to the electric fuel
pump until the fuel pressure returns to the map curves.
The J293 controller incorporates a failsafe mode where, should there not be a recognized PWM signal of between 5% and about 95% within 10 seconds after 12V is present on its engine alive KL_15 terminal, it runs the pair of fans at full speed. This is nice to have.
The nominal ranges are expressed as:
~15% ≤ low speed ≤ high speed ≤ ~95%
Re: 2006 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 Turbo GDI test mule