[Success Story] 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73

Post by AndreyB »

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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73

Post by AndreyB »

Just cut one too many wires and got a chance to check cranking wiring.

Interesting - immobilizer is the one feeding current into starter relay but ECU is the one grounding relay control coil. But if I bypass the relay altogether the ECU would still be happy to run the engine.

Fancy feature - as long as you touch the key, ECU would keep cranking until engine starts.
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73

Post by AndreyB »

just a boring status update

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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73

Post by AndreyB »

It's too loud to rev in the garage or even outside of the garage. Probably need to fabricate some muffling :(

I am happy with the engine stand - next step is running this with rusEfi ECU
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73

Post by AndreyB »

#12 cylinder gives us a chance to see the part number and air injection hose on the injector

13641435991 who knows flow rate?
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73

Post by AndreyB »

Somehow only v12 e38 has this sweet custom CAN star bus part 12521737858 0928400229

It might have something to do with two ECUs talking to each other. It got my attention mostly because this is just a sweet CAN star rail :) I was hoping it's a common part between many BMW but looks like it's not? :(
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73

Post by AndreyB »

VR correct wiring vs VR incorrect wiring experiment confirms our theories about 60/2 vs "60/2 VW" confusion in the software. https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/988

Also progress :)



next step is wiring a couple of bts2140 using https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/tree/master/hardware/DDPAK_breakout

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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by AndreyB »

Did I forget to post the first run video?!

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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by mk e »

Nice!

Congrats!
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by OrchardPerformance »

Here is my current M20 tune for you to use as a base map for you next test.

Warm up fuelling is a bit heavy at the moment so you may want to dial that down and the crank offset will mean nothing to you for the v12.
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[The extension msq has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by mck1117 »

OrchardPerformance wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:48 am
Here is my current M20 tune for you to use as a base map for you next test.

Warm up fuelling is a bit heavy at the moment so you may want to dial that down and the crank offset will mean nothing to you for the v12.
I think the crank offset is the same, unless you've moved your flywheel. Most (all?) bosch 60-2 setups have the missing tooth roughly 90 degrees btdc #1. The two crank sensors are offset 60 degrees from one another, so they're both at the same "offset" from their bank's front cylinder.
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by OrchardPerformance »

I have "moved my flywheel" :o

Actually I modified my front pulley a while ago so I have the 324 degree offset for the later motronic VVT engines.
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by AndreyB »

Harness crimping/soldering phase, I'd say two microRusEfi harnesses are 60% ready.
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by bill »

This is COOL!
i happen to have a V-12 i just bought also! 1995.
So hopefully can also put this setup on my engine! I am in DC, not too far from you.
Keep up the good work!

bill

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1XK477EhkwcRghfXG8gcKT39N7Ey6DI8m

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1G12vAhc4OQW85u-My_5Smcc00CQckekI
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by AndreyB »

Welcome Bill!

I see you do not have throttle bodies and power steering so you need a way to route water pump belt? Please start your own topic and tell us more about your plans in your topic! Also how much did you pay?
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by bill »

I bought it from the junkyard -- LKQ in maryland for $240. But i had to take it out. Which was not so hard.
The junkyard wanted to charge me extra $$ for the throttle bodies-- like $40 each.
So i figured i can go get a more up-to-date throttle body off a junk newer BMW--- for the same price.
the alternator was gone when i bought it. my bad luck! Same on Power Steering pump.

I was hoping to get a fuel injection and spark system for all 12 cylinders, since the BMW style of two separate systems was, well, problematic.

It looks like you are going with 2 separate systems?

I would be very interested in doing the same setup as you, since you have first hand knowledge!

I wanted to go with a more modern spark setup also. Like a coil on plug setup. Probably grab some from the junkyard off GM cars.
RusEFI can use those, right? Or i can stay with the old school distributor if need be.
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by AndreyB »

You did the right thing with NOT getting throttle bodies - those are very special on M73 and rusEfi does not plan to support those original M73 ETBs.

Please consider VAG bosch from 1.8T volkswagen or audi. Please start you own thread and we will keep discussing further :) There are options, we will get it running happily.
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by AndreyB »

start/stop logic does not work completely, I was using starterbench here
2nd MRE does not read VR for whatever reason so we have only one half of the engine running

actual real first time ever MRE half-of-v12 coverage:

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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by AndreyB »

Starts really nicely but needs a better tune

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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by bill »

Hey,

i was looking over my M73, and i believe this is a knock sensor?
(there are 4 of them)
are you going to use that sensor in your setup?

Good job so far!!

bill
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by OrchardPerformance »

As discussed, the transfer function for the M73 MAF sensors is at the link below:
https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1726

You need this sensor, it is on the second tab.
0280217110 Ø70 - E36 318 M44, E38 750 M73 and M73N, E31 M73, Z3 1.9 M44 - PN 13 62 1 736 224
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by AndreyB »

This test engine is attached to a functional transmission so with some help I can start to slowly move TCU project forward.

A boring action item on the way to this TCU would be making this v12 a bit less loud :) And probably more Miata TCU progress should be made before I switch to this BMW TCU.
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by AndreyB »

3 wires are now connecting my M73 to Proteus!

This might be the world record of v12 <> Proteus wires?!
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by AndreyB »

Junk yard time! Has been forever since I've been to one!

1) VAG igniter https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Vault_Of_Ignition_Parts
2) Nissan throttle bodies since https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=37459#p37459
3) VAG ETB pigtails since I have many ETBs
4) throttle pedal
5) 134 pigtails
6) 145 pigtails
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by AndreyB »

A lot of Proteus v12 progress was made today, there is a good chance of engine start tomorrow. Wiring is being documented at https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/HOWTO-M73-v12-on-Proteus

Nissan Hitachi ETB added to https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Vault-Of-Electronic-Throttle-Bodies-ETB


BMW M73 bolts are 46mm length normal 10mm hex head short, but Nissan bolts are 58mm length and use internal hex. You should grab spare bolts from junk yard!

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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by AndreyB »

Now on Proteus

I've drilled Nissan ETBs with a 3/8 inch (9.525mm) in order to mount directly on BMW intake.

My settings are canned into latest firmware under "Proteus M73" button
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by Lambo97 »

Hey Andrey you've inspired 2 more followers. My self and a friend just picked up 2 M73N's to do exactly what your doing. I'm an IT engineer and have no issue working with this type of hardware and programming it. We are following your progress and are on the fence about the throttle bodies. I'm looking for snappy response on the motor as I've just driven the 1998 750iL and the throttle is about 1 second behind input.

Did you consider at any time just using TPS or do you find the Nissan pedal control good enough?

Also do you see any benefit? other than the challenge, to run the full sequential or just use batch injection with wasted spark?

Thanks,
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by AndreyB »

2xv12 is pretty cool :)

I doubt that ETBs are introducing any delay. My experience is that ETBs move pretty quick and exactly as you command. In case of OEM they could be doing some smoothing - we do not.

There is very little benefit in sequential vs wasted but out M73s are completely not batches not wasted, I am a bit not sure why do you bring this up?
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by mck1117 »

Lambo97 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 3:21 am
We are following your progress and are on the fence about the throttle bodies. I'm looking for snappy response on the motor as I've just driven the 1998 750iL and the throttle is about 1 second behind input.

Did you consider at any time just using TPS or do you find the Nissan pedal control good enough?
I'm running an electronic throttle on my LS (5.3 liter v8) and it's very snappy. Just as snappy as when I was running mechanical throttle. Here's a datalog from my car:
image.png
image.png (30.93 KiB) Viewed 6408 times
Notice how the blue/green traces (target and actual throttle position, respectively) track each other extremely well.

The lag you're feeling on the 750i is all added by the computer - remember it's supposed to be a luxobarge, not a sports car. There are plenty of modern electronic throttle cars that are very snappy - I know my Miata certainly is and an E46 M3 is because it's ETB ITB (!).
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Re: 1998 BMW V12 engine M73 #55

Post by mk e »

mck1117 wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:23 pm

The lag you're feeling on the 750i is all added by the computer - remember it's supposed to be a luxobarge, not a sports car. There are plenty of modern electronic throttle cars that are very snappy - I know my Miata certainly is and an E46 M3 is because it's ETB ITB (!).
And the OEMs need to worry about emissions and intentionally dwell the TB to allow emissions controls to keep up....my turbo VW was frikin horrible. 100% pedal got me 18% at the TB for like 5seconds...then it flipped open about mid turn, very hard to control. That had nothing to do with ETC system limits and everything to do with emissions.
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