V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

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mck1117
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by mck1117 »

Lambo97
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by Lambo97 »

mck1117 wrote:
Fri Jun 25, 2021 7:22 pm
Here's the guide with help for "should I swap my VR wires": https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Trigger-Configuration-Guide#determine-correct-polarity
ok Matt I hooked them up but noticed that the tab for diagnostics and high speed logging is greyed out. Do I need a paid version of Tunerstudio to enable that?

Also The ETb's are working fine but I'm getting TPS1 and TPS 2 error. I thought Tunerstudio would use the ETB as TPS not sure if I have to enable something in Tunerstudio to put them together.

Thanks for the help getting close to running!
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by mck1117 »

Lambo97 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:10 am
ok Matt I hooked them up but noticed that the tab for diagnostics and high speed logging is greyed out. Do I need a paid version of Tunerstudio to enable that?
Yep, it requires the paid version. It's worth having anyway, since the paid version unlocks higher datalogging rates (free max is 15hz, paid is unlocked, and rusEFI can manage ~150hz), custom dashboards, autotune, etc.
Lambo97 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:10 am
Also The ETb's are working fine but I'm getting TPS1 and TPS 2 error. I thought Tunerstudio would use the ETB as TPS not sure if I have to enable something in Tunerstudio to put them together.
"TPS Error" means that while your TPS is configured, the ECU isn't happy with what it sees. Either the sensors are out of range, or the consistency check has failed between the primary/secondary sensors for that throttle (deviation of >5%). Double check that all four sensors (2x throttles, pri+sec) are wired and configured as you think they are. You can make sure that your throttles work (and maybe fix the TPS problem) by auto-calibrating both throttle position sensors: https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Electronic-Throttle-Body-Configuration-Guide#throttle-position-sensor
Lambo97 wrote:
Sat Jun 26, 2021 6:10 am
Thanks for the help getting close to running!
No problem at all! It's an awesome project, and you're easy to help (good detail in your questions, and know your way around an engine!).
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by Lambo97 »

Ok I'm working on the TPS situation checking settings. But before I get too far can someone tell me what degree I should be using for the trigger. I'm 5 teeth away from the 2 missing teeth.
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I'm sure there is a mathematical way to figure it out without getting a protractor or a degree wheel. You wizards would probably know right away or if you can explain the method then we can all learn.

Thanks,
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by mck1117 »

60 teeth, so it should be 6 degrees per tooth. 5-7 teeth gives 30-42 degrees or so. Should be something in that range, and you can fine-tune with a timing light once it's running.
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by bill »

i just set it roughly then used a timing light to fine tune it while cranking with the starter ...

set the ignition to static ( not sure of the exact box)
crank it over
and use the timing light on it
you should get pretty close to TDC,
then you can adjust the degrees in the software until you get it reasonably well set up ...

remember , the software settings ( rising, falling, inverse) will throw off your spark , due to the 2 missed tooth gap in the wheel being 12 degrees...
so fiddle with the software settings
to get a strong CPS signal/
before you hit it with the timing light..
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by Lambo97 »

Yes I read through the wiki it seems to make sense. I think Matts degrees may be incorrect I'm 25 teeth away to the right of TDC with the crank sensor. Should I not start with 25 times 6 Degrees BDC to get in the ballpark if the crank is turning clockwise? So 150 ?

My biggest problem is I have 3/4 an inch to the front firewall and might have to set up some mirrors or poke a hole behind the seats to see the timing mark and get a light in there.

That's a 1/2 inch hose on top of the valve cover on the right, also there's an overhang preventing m from looking straight down the front of the motor. I'm thinking If I set TDC and then mark the bottom of the pully maybe I can time from the bottom with a starter button. hmmmm issues...
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Last edited by Lambo97 on Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by mck1117 »

Is that photo with the engine turned to TDC?
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by Lambo97 »

Yes, top mark is right on TDC. The mark on the pulley is on the trailing edge of the tooth thus you see the white line is near the back of the tooth. The trigger is marked also with a white line. What do you think? Here's a better picture without the water pump pulley. I think there is 26 teeth to the trigger.
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by bill »

if your crank is set to TDC, then the gap between your trigger pulse and the CPS is about 5 teeth

if you look, the only thing that matters is the gap from
where the trigger pulse is GREEN ARROW ,
and your CPS is.. BLUE ARROW
the red marks are the 2 missing teeth that trigger the computer

so computer will notice the two missing teeth,
and once the gap is finished,
and the pulses begins again

if its set for RISING

which is about 30 deg BTDC

your trigger pulse will happen about 30 deg before the engine hits TDC

make sense?

confirm with a timing light ...
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by bill »

a true Lambo would drop the engine to set the timing light ...
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by Lambo97 »

haha, yes your right...time to pull all the rear body work off, pull the motor. It must be authentic.....
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I haven't put the script on the motor yet or painted the red accents. But I mean, why should I care if it runs if it doesn't look good?

Ok maybe I should get it to run a little......
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by AndreyB »

Please blink if both cars have burned to the ground?!
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by Lambo97 »

Hey there Andrey, i was racing to get my car together before a vacation opportunity to visit family popped up. Ontario removed the quarantine requirement 2 weeks ago so I was able to book getaway to Vancouver. The car is ready to set base timing once I figure out how to get a timing light into the pulley area.

Rob has been finishing up the axles on his car and also took this week off. So next week we will be gang busters to try to get the yellow car running with the v4 board and if all goes well, we'll try the V2 board on the Black car.

The black car will use 2 of the Toyota Igniters with 3 outputs each so he can use the 6 Chevy coils in wasted spark config. I'll shoot for full sequential with the Chevy LS2 truck coils.

So I'll post my experience early next week with how I'm doing. Excited to see the rusEFI in action.
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by Lambo97 »

Hey everyone I'm back at it. I'm looking at the TPS issue now, I'll trace the wire back to the v4 make sure its' connected. Andrey wired the ETBs so I'm sure they should be connected. I'm guessing both TPS1's from both sides of the V12 are connected in parallel so TPS1 of ETB1 is connected to TPS1 of ETB2, and TPS2 of both ETbs are also connected together? Checking now.

I'm also getting a strange occurrence of moving the throttle and the rad fans are turning on. I think Andrey set the Tunerstudio profile for the BMW temp sensor resistance while I'm using VDO so maybe it's causing the fans to trigger. I thought I configured the resistance correctly in TS but I'll double check.

If I can clear the TPS errors and stop the fans from turning on with throttle I'll move on to setting initial crank degrees to 30 or something and run the timing light top see if I'm close. If anyone has any ideas about the TPS or fan issue would be great.
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by mck1117 »

Lambo97 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:43 am
Hey everyone I'm back at it. I'm looking at the TPS issue now, I'll trace the wire back to the v4 make sure its' connected. Andrey wired the ETBs so I'm sure they should be connected. I'm guessing both TPS1's from both sides of the V12 are connected in parallel so TPS1 of ETB1 is connected to TPS1 of ETB2, and TPS2 of both ETbs are also connected together? Checking now.
Nope - each throttle has two independent sensors, and the ECU controls each throttle independently. 4 voltage inputs to the ECU, 2 motor outputs.
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by AndreyB »

At this point I totally do not remember what was wired how :( But definitely no parallel wiring on four independent TPS channels

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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by Lambo97 »

OK so the ETBs are not working, I hear a whine like a servo motor moving but no movement. I cut the rad fans of lowside 15 so they stop triggering. This is frustrating because the etbs were working. I reset back to Andreys original TS profile, same issue so it must be wiring. I see a voltage on the MTR pins + and -, I've found ground and 5V also. What kind of madness is going cause me to strip out the new wiring. I haven't done a thing to Andrey's ETB cabling, Ahhhhhh!
Last edited by Lambo97 on Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by Lambo97 »

Checked Throttle in TS it follows my throttle movement so no issue on the input. I verified there is 5V at the throttles, I've swapped ETbs and same outcome no movement. They are humming in relation to the my throttle input but they are not moving. I've verified they are getting 5V, ground and MTR + and - I'm not getting a TPS error now. When trying to calibrate they don't move but humm in realtion to the computer trying to move them. I've cut the rad fans that were getting ground when moving the throttle. Does this sound like a + voltage feeding back through the ground plate of the V4 board?

They were moving when I started wiring, so my idea is to ignore the injector and coil wiring because that seems to work fine. This seemed to have happened sometime early in the wiring into the car so possibly a sensor is putting voltage into the ground plate or a short in the 5V rail to ground? Only cutting each sensor out will tell unless you guys have an idea.

I plugged the v2 into the harness, it blinks blue, runs the pump but otherwise looses USB to TS. So my guess is short to ground or some coil or sensor is sending voltage into the ground plate. Where would you guys look first?
Last edited by Lambo97 on Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by AndreyB »

We need fresh tune on www.rusEFI.com/online and fresh logs to be less blind
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by Lambo97 »

AndreyB wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:45 pm
We need fresh tune on www.rusEFI.com/online and fresh logs to be less blind
Hey Andrey I flashed it back to your original profile, is that what you mean? Also where are the logs stored so I can download.
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by AndreyB »

Not exactly. I would like to know what _exactly_ YOU have regardless of how you got it so I am asking for YOU to upload tune following https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/HOWTO-upload-tune procedure


In TunerStudio hit "Data Logging" -> "Start Logging".
Once you've done something interesting, hit "Data Logging" -> "Stop"

Then hit "Data Logging" -> "Show DataLog Folder"


At this point you can upload your log at same https://rusefi.com/online/
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by Lambo97 »

OK done, I only logged the throttle movement. Also I see a yellow on Ignition and injectors, I checked the 12V input pin for the ECU it has 12V.
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by AndreyB »

I see your tune now that's progress!

I am not sure what you mean "Also I see a yellow on Ignition and injectors, I checked the 12V input pin for the ECU it has 12V." please use more words I am probably missing context of what you mean "yellow'. Yellow wires? yellow background somewhere? where? indicator? tune? log?

I do not see any of your logs on https://rusefi.com/online/
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by Lambo97 »

Oh yes, so In tuner studio I was looking at the bottom boxes that show status of devices. Ignition and Injectors boxes are yellow. Maybe due to engine not running. This is also the area I saw the TPS boxes in error. Currently they are clear no error.

When I try to upload a log it says no data points available, I guess because I didn't start, idle or run the engine. I just moved the throttle.

I also noted today that when I moved the throttle the fuel pump turned on and off. This seems the lowside outputs are grounding out with something I'm doing on the throttle.
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by AndreyB »

Lambo97 wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:33 pm
When I try to upload a log it says no data points available
Overall you are thinking too much of me. For me to be efficient please attach screen shots more or less for any jump of context. I have a very small brain. Hoping that I would recall all possible errors in all the parts of the system by a three word summary is putting a tremendous stress on me. Please help me help you by providing screen shots WAY more often. Just a reminder that for you to provide a screen shot you LITERLLY need to hit under 7 keys

"ctrl-print screen" or "alt-print screen" to take a screenshot into clipboard
"ctrl-v" to attach image from clipboard into forum post.

for you it's only 4 keystrokes, for me it's a TREMENDOUS help. Can you please do that for me?
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by AndreyB »

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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by AndreyB »

https://github.com/rusefi/web_backend/issues/126 is the problem on our end

https://github.com/rusefi/web_backend/issues/126 is a bit misleading because it's NOT preventing you from upload. Please ignore the misleading warning message and hit "Upload"
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by Lambo97 »

Yes I love long form explanations, I didn't initially want to waste your time since I consider you the master of all thing rusEFi. So I will go back and do some detailed testing and screen shots to get this resolved.

I just ignored the "no data points" error and clicked "upload" It seemed to work tell me if you see it.
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Re: V12 M73 to Audi trans, with Proteus in Lamborghini Replicas

Post by mk e »

Any chance the polarity is reversed? I had a very similar issue with my setup, I could hear it, it was heating up so clearly getting power but not moving....because I was driving it backwards.
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