Bmw 850 ci M73 supercharged

Your chance to introduce yourself and your vehicle
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 14292
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: Bmw 850 ci M73 supercharged

Post by AndreyB »

You need a professional :( You need someone who would be able to assemble everything and get everything running for you.
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Simon@FutureProof
contributor
contributor
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:55 pm
Github Username: Orchardperformance
Slack: Orchardperformance

Re: Bmw 850 ci M73 supercharged

Post by Simon@FutureProof »

Ecorli57 wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:25 pm
AndreyB wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:18 pm
Where in the states are you?

We have zero interest to handle weird stepper motors and weird pedal - we prefer simpler modern ETBs and simpler modern pedals see https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/HOWTO-M73-v12-on-Proteus

Your 96 harness is probably not using https://www.ebay.com/itm/333779143374 like my 1998 but maybe https://www.ebay.com/itm/333833818007 so someone would have to solder wires to those https://www.ebay.com/itm/333833818007

Biggest unknown is what kind of CAN messages is that gearbox expecting. We can make rusEFI send any CAN message as long as we know which ones are needed, which we currently do not know. Maybe someone on the internet would be available to help, maybe gearbox would be happy without CAN messages.
Is it posible to set a proteus on a 88 pin conectors and transfer the oem software from the oem ecus to the proteus?I have read the files from my first oem ecus when some guy in Australia was Imstalled Evc boards with 32 pin eproms but one of the ecus that he modified Did not work, just lost my money, i mean i. That way the proteus could get comunication with the whall car?
It's not possible to directly transfer the mapping or software from the OEM ecu's, the way the Proteus function in terms of programming is very different to the OEM ecu's. The programming language and instruction set of the processors is completely incompatible so it would be a total dead end.

You have the same problem that the Ferrari's have where the program of the stock ecu is not well understood as some of the stock program is locked inside the processor and has not yet been removed and decompiled properly. Anyone claiming to be able to tune those stock ECUs at present time is lying or doing some kind of bodge unless they are able to remove and replace the processors entirely. The program in the processor is one time programmable and cannot be erased or rewritten.

Regarding RE, you really need a skilled tuning shop that is able to really dig into this car for you, anything you try to add on to the current setup will likely just be throwing money at it and fixing nothing, potentially a lot of money and heart break.
If you can find a skilled tuning shop willing to take it on and do the proteus install then you should be able to get some pretty good results, but you will need that experienced professional to guide the process and be able to feed back the info we will need to help with this one.

If you try to take this on yourself at the moment the best thing I think you can do is park the car and assume your not getting it up and running for at least 18 months as you are in for a steep learning curve, I would suggest beginning with a lot of the information HP academy produce and reading up on the fundamentals of the engine management systems to get a better understanding of the needs of your install. Bosch have a very good handbook on the principals of operation of modern engine management.
Now keeping MRE in stock in the UK - https://www.FutureProofPerformance.com
ilde20
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:31 pm

Re: Bmw 850 ci M73 supercharged

Post by ilde20 »

Ecorli57 wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:25 pm
AndreyB wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:18 pm
Where in the states are you?

We have zero interest to handle weird stepper motors and weird pedal - we prefer simpler modern ETBs and simpler modern pedals see https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/HOWTO-M73-v12-on-Proteus

Your 96 harness is probably not using https://www.ebay.com/itm/333779143374 like my 1998 but maybe https://www.ebay.com/itm/333833818007 so someone would have to solder wires to those https://www.ebay.com/itm/333833818007

Biggest unknown is what kind of CAN messages is that gearbox expecting. We can make rusEFI send any CAN message as long as we know which ones are needed, which we currently do not know. Maybe someone on the internet would be available to help, maybe gearbox would be happy without CAN messages.
Is it posible to set a proteus on a 88 pin conectors and transfer the oem software from the oem ecus to the proteus?I have read the files from my first oem ecus when some guy in Australia was Imstalled Evc boards with 32 pin eproms but one of the ecus that he modified Did not work, just lost my money, i mean i. That way the proteus could get comunication with the whole car?
ilde20
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:31 pm

Re: Bmw 850 ci M73 supercharged

Post by ilde20 »

Ecorli57 wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:25 pm
AndreyB wrote:
Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:18 pm
Where in the states are you?

We have zero interest to handle weird stepper motors and weird pedal - we prefer simpler modern ETBs and simpler modern pedals see https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/HOWTO-M73-v12-on-Proteus

Your 96 harness is probably not using https://www.ebay.com/itm/333779143374 like my 1998 but maybe https://www.ebay.com/itm/333833818007 so someone would have to solder wires to those https://www.ebay.com/itm/333833818007

Biggest unknown is what kind of CAN messages is that gearbox expecting. We can make rusEFI send any CAN message as long as we know which ones are needed, which we currently do not know. Maybe someone on the internet would be available to help, maybe gearbox would be happy without CAN messages.
Is it posible to set a proteus on a 88 pin conectors and transfer the oem software from the oem ecus to the proteus?I have read the files from my first oem ecus when some guy in Australia was Imstalled Evc boards with 32 pin eproms but one of the ecus that he modified Did not work, just lost my money, i mean i. That way the proteus could get comunication with the whole car?
JRockland
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:20 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Bmw 850 ci M73 supercharged

Post by JRockland »

Hey I have the same engine on my bench right now, I had been looking for ecu options as I want to add a supercharger to it.
I guess we will be in mud together trying to make it work.

I do have some experience tuning an engine but nothing close to what is needed here for a complete solution.
Simon@FutureProof
contributor
contributor
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:55 pm
Github Username: Orchardperformance
Slack: Orchardperformance

Re: Bmw 850 ci M73 supercharged

Post by Simon@FutureProof »

A TLDR on the stock ecu is that the M5.2 is sort of an evolution of the M3.3 used in the E36, on the E36 the program for the ECU is partly in the processors memory but it is also replicated in it's entirety in the ROM, which means it can be read, modified and the processor forced to run totally from the ROM.
On the E31 M5.2 that missing bit of the program in only contained in the processor and it seems there is no, yet found, way to read it out and piece it back together so we can find out how the ECU thinks.
Now keeping MRE in stock in the UK - https://www.FutureProofPerformance.com
mk e
Posts: 486
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:32 pm

Re: Bmw 850 ci M73 supercharged

Post by mk e »

OrchardPerformance wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:30 am
.... it seems there is no, yet found, way to read it out and piece it back together so we can find out how the ECU thinks.
I would argue that is a blessing :)

Something the right answer is just cut the cord and get on with moving forward and this sure seem like one of those times. There are now a couple guys ready to go, I say they join forces and frikin GO! Buy a proteas, cut of the connectors the go to the useless OEM ECUs and get the cars running right.


....I should add I have a history of bad choices, but I don't think this is one of them. :lol:
Simon@FutureProof
contributor
contributor
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:55 pm
Github Username: Orchardperformance
Slack: Orchardperformance

Re: Bmw 850 ci M73 supercharged

Post by Simon@FutureProof »

I would agree, tuning the M5.2 is a dead end and IMO a purely academic exercise now given modern standalones are catching up with the 90s OEM.
Now keeping MRE in stock in the UK - https://www.FutureProofPerformance.com
ilde20
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:31 pm

Re: Bmw 850 ci M73 supercharged

Post by ilde20 »

OrchardPerformance wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:36 am
I would agree, tuning the M5.2 is a dead end and IMO a purely academic exercise now given modern standalones are catching up with the 90s OEM.
Yes I want to take the risk but I will need some help so the question is do i have to adapt the proteus to the 88 pin oem conectors? Does the proteus could mange all the functions of the car via the can bus? Because this car has a lot of elctorinc items inside and sensors ,even i could read the OTP EPROMs with. Batronix 68 pin adapter from the ecus that have been modifaided by the Australian guy he desolder the eproms and he installed an eprom sockets so I could took apart the eproms from both ecus an read the files so I have those files ,if that helps I could share it
Last edited by ilde20 on Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
ilde20
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:31 pm

Re: Bmw 850 ci M73 supercharged

Post by ilde20 »

ilde20 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:28 am
OrchardPerformance wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:36 am
I would agree, tuning the M5.2 is a dead end and IMO a purely academic exercise now given modern standalones are catching up with the 90s OEM.
Yes I want to take the risk but I will need some help so the question is do i have to adapt the proteus to the 88 pin oem conectors? Does the proteus could mange all the functions of the car via the can bus? Because this car has a lot of elctorinc items inside and sensors ,even i could read the OTP EPROMs with. Batronix 68 pin adapter from the ecus that have been modifaided by the Australian guy he desolder the eproms and he installed an eprom sockets so I could took apart the eproms from both ecus an read the files so I have those files ,if that helps I could share it
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Bmw 850 ci M73 supercharged

Post by bill »

ilde20 wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:28 am
OrchardPerformance wrote:
Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:36 am
I would agree, tuning the M5.2 is a dead end and IMO a purely academic exercise now given modern standalones are catching up with the 90s OEM.
Yes I want to take the risk but I will need some help so the question is do i have to adapt the proteus to the 88 pin oem conectors? Does the proteus could mange all the functions of the car via the can bus?
Hello ilde20 / Ecorli57,

you seemed to have switched you names/emails in the middle of the discussion... that confuses the other folks trying to follow along ...
please stick to one or the other.

The best plan of attack for you is

disconnect the supercharger and just try and get the car to run.

TAKE IT TO A GOOD GARAGE WHO CAN DIAGNOSE YOUR PROBLEMS

not necessarily FIX the problem, just figure out if it is
* electrical problem (ECU crapped out, spark failed, fuses, wiring, etc )
* Mechanical problem ( boosted the engine and ran too lean, supercharger parts went into engine, etc )
* other problem
The mechanic can run a compression test, oil pressure test, run a camera inside the intake and cylinders, test for spark, test file pump, test ecu, etc

Proteus can run your v12 no problem, and proteus does CAN signals too, for the rest of the car electronics... although decoding the 1990's era bmw CAN may not be so easy...

BUT proteus cannot fix a broken mechanical problem...

Tell us what the mechanic report says ... or better yet, just post it here for us to read...
thanks!!
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Bmw 850 ci M73 supercharged

Post by bill »

any word??
Post Reply