[help needed] W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

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ML190E
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W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

Hello Everyone

I'm new to the forum and this is my first time to ever run a standalone ECU so be kind :lol:

I'm currently converting my w201 190E to M111 from a CLK 230 Kompressor, I'm quite a long way into my build and i have the engine fitted and running on the CLK loom and ECU. The engine was running perfectly however the clutch was slipping as the dual mass clutch and flywheel I fitted didn't suit my Getrag (dogleg) gearbox.

After some research I was advised to get a single mass conversion kit for a Mercedes Sprinter which I did and now the car drives in all gears fine however the engine is in limp mode (no boost) and it is a bit lumpy which it wasn't before. I'm putting this down to the crank pickup being different as its the only component that I have changed that could influence how the engine runs.

After more research I discovered that anyone else who fitted the single mass conversion kit also was running standalone ECU meaning they could change the crank trigger on their ECU which I cant do. This means I need to go standalone now to resolve the issue and I'm looking at purchasing a Hellen 128

The questions I have are

Is the Hellen ECU plug and play?
Is there a base map on the ECU to get my car to start and run?
Can I tune the ECU myself with a laptop? (I've never done anything like this before)
Do I need to change anything else when I fit the Hellen ECU?

Any input is appreciated

Regards

Marc
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AndreyB
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by AndreyB »

ML190E wrote:
Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:39 pm
Can I tune the ECU myself with a laptop? (I've never done anything like this before)
Welcome to the forum!

Tuning is not trivial. I am hoping to make ECUs smarter and more self-learning one day but as of today it's a major effort to get you car driving nicely across the board of different modes of operation. For instance see https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2194 to get the spirit of what I am saying.

See also https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Basemap

rusEFI hardware is "plug in" without "play" - hardware plugs but you cannot go to race track once you've hooked things up.
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augenblick
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by augenblick »

Hellen128 is direct plugin if your donor car is ME2.0/2.1 (Pre-2000), if it's ~2000+ you will need to repin the wires to fit the plug setup for the Earlier ECM. Others have published tunes for M111 Kompressor engines, but you may need to adjust it to your particular engine/setup, as Andrey said. You can tune it with a laptop through tunerstudio.
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by AndreyB »

A2711501833 for instance would be wrong harness

A1705408205 looks to be an example of proper harness?
image.png
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ML190E
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

Thanks for the replies, is there anywhere in Europe I can get a Hellen from to avoid import taxes from USA?

Marc
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AndreyB
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by AndreyB »

ML190E wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:52 pm
is there anywhere in Europe I can get a Hellen from to avoid import taxes from USA?
Only available from USA at the moment.
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by AndreyB »

Shipped
Attachments
20211201_154654 r.jpg
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20211201_154642 r.jpg
20211201_154642 r.jpg (250.39 KiB) Viewed 4940 times
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ML190E
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

Got the ECU today, quality piece of kit 👌🏻

What do I do now? I've downloaded tunerstudio onto my laptop so and advice as to what I need to do to set it up

Regards
Marc
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AndreyB
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by AndreyB »

You want tunerstudio beta for better usability

You have to open case at this point to access USB as of today

Please be more specific

Please wire up your wideband controller next maybe? Please decide on how to modify case if you would be using on-board controller?
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ML190E
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

Ok so i have plugged ECU in and connected with tunerstudio

Getting some readings like coolant temp etc. and I've used the bench test function and can run fuel pump and spark plugs.

a few issues I an experiencing

1. when I switch on ignition my starter relay is engaging and cranking engine for 5 or 6 seconds then stops for 4 seconds and keeps on going and going so I have to remove relay to stop it cranking. (What I must add here is when I ran the engine on standard ECU I couldn't crank it using the key and had to wire my own push button start and would have to hold key in crank position and then press starter button to get car to start)


2. I have a TPS error on screen the moment I switch on ignition and I also get a pedal error when i press the pedal, when I try to calibrate TPS Im getting the same current reading for both open and closed throttle so something definitely not right here


3. I cant hear the injectors firing when i try and bench test them but i feel this could be because of the TPS error??


Anybody got any ideas so far?
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by AndreyB »

Please upload tune and log :) https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/HOWTO-upload-tune

That would show us TPS and PPS raw voltage while you move.
ML190E wrote:
Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:50 pm
3. I cant hear the injectors firing when i try and bench test them but i feel this could be because of the TPS error??
Should not be related.

Let's start from the beginning - can you bench test main relay? fuel pump relay?
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ML190E
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

Main relay doesnt seem to do anything - i dont hear anything

Fuel pump relay works when i test it
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by AndreyB »

We really need your tune. Time for some multimeter action!
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ML190E
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

OK thanks Andrey

I will try and upload a tune tomorrow and take it from there
ML190E
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

Current tune is now uploaded


Marc
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by AndreyB »

Well news flash we do not control main relay on this board I guess this vehicle takes care of main relay without ECU being involved.
https://rusefi.com/online/view.php?msq=785&dialog=mainRelayDialog

At this point it's photos time. Do you have complete original vehicle? Do you have harness connected to something not original? What is the electricity path for those injectors? One relevant picture would help me/us.

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Mercedes-C230-and-SLK230 might be relevant

Jimmy is a bit busy with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Western_Kentucky_tornado aftermath
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ML190E
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

So a bit of background

When I first fitted my M111 engine I sent my loom and ECU over to a guy called Louis in UK (aka Modified Mercs) and he modified my loom to be plug and play into the w201 chassis. I use the CLK ignition, engine harness, K40 relay and previously the CLK ECU. The modified loom had to be wired to the battery for power and also to the w201 original fuse box to give it power also.

I had to wire my own fuel pump relay but this is being controlled by ECU as it is wired to the K40

For some reason my cat wouldn't crank with the modified loom at all which is why I wired my own push button start. Key had to be in crank position and then use push button start for it to fire up. Since plugging in the Hellen it cranks on its own as stated before. I've disconnected my push button start in case it was causing the issue but still the same

Hope this gives some.more insight, I will take a picture of my injector wiring later and post it
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by AndreyB »

ML190E wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:38 am
guy called Louis in UK (aka Modified Mercs)
Louis have used a dozen or two of microRusEFI for similar M111 conversions but not Hellen yet!

It sounds like both a mess and also probably something simple we are missing. Your next step is to track the complete electrical path of injector and spark bench test clicking.
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ML190E
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

So bench testing the spark plugs works fine I am getting clicking when I test spark #1 & #4

Injectors I have 12v on one pin and I also checked continuity on each injector back to ECU pins on connector E and all are OK. Not getting any noise from injectors when I bench test. Put a bulb in also to check injectors and not lighting up.

Was able to stop the starter constantly cranking by changing starter settings to PULLUP from PULLDOWN. Starter is now working when I bench test starter relay but won't work when I put key into crank position.
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by AndreyB »

Do you have a beeping DMM? Beeping DMM would beep when you bench test injector output since bench is grounding outputs.
ML190E wrote:
Tue Dec 21, 2021 10:00 pm
Was able to stop the starter constantly cranking by changing starter settings to PULLUP from PULLDOWN. Starter is now working when I bench test starter relay but won't work when I put key into crank position.
Your next step is to track the complete electrical path of injector and spark bench test clicking. Same with starter situation - someone needs to build a complete and full picture of how is electricity supposed to be travelling here.
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ML190E
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

So did a bit of wire tracing on the injectors and the starter motor and this is what I have so far

Let me know if its of any use
Diagram
Diagram
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In case ot is of any benefit, with my original ECU plugged in I'm getting 12v on one pin on injector and 5.9v on the other pin but when I plug in new ECU I'm getting 12v on both pins.

Marc
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by AndreyB »

This diagram is a great start!

For injectors to click we still need to fill in more details:
1) the complete path of GND from ECU wire(s) to battery
2) the complete path of +12 from battery+ to pin#3 on A1/K40

Please post three pictures:
complete engine bay photo
two images of where M111 harness hits your W201 vehicle
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ML190E
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

Thanks

I will draw up the positive and negative electrical path tomorrow. See images below of the wiring harness.
Harness1
Harness1
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Harness2
Harness2
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Harness3
Harness3
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Picture of engine bay
Enginebay
Enginebay
20211227_224323.jpg (2.73 MiB) Viewed 4236 times
Marc
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by AndreyB »

That's a very nice engine bay :)
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by duhafnusa4 »

Looking forward to diagrams. Also you may want to test that all the relays in the K40 are working. The K40 is known to fail.
ML190E
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

So I've done some investigating on positive and negative supply

From what Ican tell looking at the pinout the ECU gets positive and negative through connectors A and B so I have focused on these and their connection to the K40

See diagram
20211229_205642.jpg
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When I have the ignition on in the car I am getting 12v to pins 1 & 3 on connector C on the K40. When I plug the K40 in then I get 12v on pin 2 so looks like the internal relay is working and it then supplies B4 on the ECU

The battery is connected directly to the w201 fusebox on connector 30 and then the ignition lives are connected to 15 and 15R
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by AndreyB »

It was very nice and clear when injectors, battery and ECU were on the same diagram. It was clearly understandable with little effort.

This is no longer the case now that we have two separate diagrams for positive and GND, with injectors not present on the GND diagram.

Please consider providing a great complete self-contained diagram with battery, ECU, injectors, +12 and GND paths.
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ML190E
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

Sorry Andrey, I've never drawn wiring diagrams before so it's a learning curve for me

I've now pulled out my harness so I could use my multimeter to check continuity and find exactly where power supply coming from. See my latest diagram which hopefully has all the information you've requested above
20211230_130302.jpg
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Battery positive is connected to block 30 on w201 fusebox which is also connected to alternator, this then supplies pin C1 on K40.

My ignition live is coming from block 15 on w201 fusebox which supplies pin C3 on K40

My ground for ECU is bolted to the nearside strut tower and this supplies pins A3, A7 & A8 on the ECU

Marc
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by duhafnusa4 »

for having not done diagrams before that looks top notch! Thanks for the data we will investigate 8-)
ML190E
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Re: W201 M111 Conversion (Hellen 128)

Post by ML190E »

duhafnusa4 wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:05 pm
for having not done diagrams before that looks top notch! Thanks for the data we will investigate 8-)
Thank you very much, I look forward to hearing back from you guys so I can hopefully make some progress 😊

Marc
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