99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

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coolantbongrips
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Re: 1999 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU & Turbo eventually™

Post by coolantbongrips »

I have a pogo pin adapter but stupidly left my STlink at work and can't flash anything until next week
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Re: 1999 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU & Turbo eventually™

Post by AndreyB »

coolantbongrips wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2024 8:38 pm
can't flash anything
Main MCU would take firmware via USB in DFU mode? if you had USB soldered?
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Re: 1999 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU & Turbo eventually™

Post by AndreyB »

Do you know part numbers for those while and black ECU headers for me to add on https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/OEM-connectors?
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Re: 1999 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU & Turbo eventually™

Post by coolantbongrips »

AndreyB wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2024 2:41 am
Do you know part numbers for those while and black ECU headers for me to add on https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/OEM-connectors?
I don't. All I know is they're made by sumitomo and don't appear in any of the 90s/2000s era catalogs I was able to find, nor have I or anyone else been able to find a part number.

I got them by emailing ignitech@ignitech.cz and asking to buy 10 of each color since they sell ECUs and ignition controllers for other bikes with this style of connector
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by coolantbongrips »

As far as I can tell the ECU works save for possibly having to tune the VR input. I uploaded a new tune and datalog to rusEFI online, trigger error was incrementing but the trigger events in the log looked okay. I won't have time to troubleshoot until tonight.
coolantbongrips
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by coolantbongrips »

coolantbongrips wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2024 5:27 pm
As far as I can tell the ECU works save for possibly having to tune the VR input. I uploaded a new tune and datalog to rusEFI online, trigger error was incrementing but the trigger events in the log looked okay. I won't have time to troubleshoot until tonight.
Never mind I'm a dumbass and was interpreting the log wrong, it starts if I give it some throttle and runs but won't idle. I'll try and work out something resembling a tune this weekend
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by coolantbongrips »

Project stalled for the forseeable future, I broke a rod or something
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by AndreyB »

coolantbongrips wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:00 am
Project stalled for the forseeable future, I broke a rod or something
While cranking? While revving? While not rusEFIing?
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by coolantbongrips »

AndreyB wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:05 am
coolantbongrips wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2024 1:00 am
Project stalled for the forseeable future, I broke a rod or something
While cranking? While revving? While not rusEFIing?
While cranking, I don't even know when exactly it happened and the last time it ran it was on the stock ECU. I plugged the rusEFI back in tonight to test some things, tried to start it, and now I'm getting some horrible noise. I'll dig deeper into it tomorrow
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by AndreyB »

Just for the record, proper "CBR 600" setup would look something like

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/6420
image.png
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by coolantbongrips »

tl;dr: VR sensor signal is out of range of VR Discrete, what value should the damping resistor be?
I replaced the engine in my bike and have been slowly poking away at getting this running. I can get it started with some throttle, but it sounds like it's misfiring and doesn't want to idle. When checking the logs in tunerstudio, I noticed that the cam position sensor appeared to be occasionally dropping out.
VR sensor in top graph
VR sensor in top graph
VFR cam sensor dropout may 14th 2024.png (161.61 KiB) Viewed 789 times
On my board this signal is routed to the VR Discrete module. At first I suspected the dropout had something to do with the half amplitude pulse causing the VR conditioner to trip up somehow but upon further investigation according to https://github.com/andreika-git/hellen-one/wiki/module-vr-discrete it looks like the limits for the VR Discrete module inputs are +2.5 and -1.6V, which are less than the +-3.5V signal I've logged while cranking.


I noticed the schematic shows an unpopulated resistor for damping hot signals which I want to populate to see if this fixes the problem, but I can't find a value for this resistor anywhere.
VR Discrete schematic
VR Discrete schematic
R770 VR Discrete.png (89.13 KiB) Viewed 789 times
Is there an official value for this resistor, or does it have to be found through experimentation?
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by coolantbongrips »

And in less important news I have two completed ECUs in ultra shit quality 3d printed cases. My goals of having a plug and play ECU that fits in the stock location are achieved even if the ECU doesn't entirely work yet!

Image
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by AndreyB »

coolantbongrips wrote:
Wed May 15, 2024 2:19 am
Is there an official value for this resistor, or does it have to be found through experimentation?

https://github.com/rusefi/uaefi/issues/65
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by coolantbongrips »

Nice, I'll install some 5k resistors tomorrow and see if that fixes it
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by kb1gtt »

I don't think we've seen a to hot VR yet. There was a Honeywell guide which caused that resistor to be a thing. The Honeywell guide predicted VR signals could go very hot. However that's at a 0 gap with a VR you hand made. I don't think we've seen a purchased VR which was capable of overpowering the input.

Keep in mind that the 5k was NOT to improve the signal quality, it was to limit the energy dumped into the +v rail. Adding the resistor is likely to cause low RPM signal loss.
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by kb1gtt »

If VR is to hot, can you add a gap? Perhaps add a spacer or something like that. Increasing the gap will dampen the signal.
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by Dron_Gus »

Adding 5K can improve SNR.
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by kb1gtt »

Oh I see analog improvements in that circuit. It's more then just a comparator. Good to see that evolution.
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by coolantbongrips »

Ignore this first part, I can see the events in the console and and I think I'm misunderstanding what "Trigger channel 2" means
I'm trying to debug this with cam and crank enabled, but I'm getting no cam signal with the following settings:
Trigger settings
Trigger settings
image.png (70.32 KiB) Viewed 579 times
I know VR Discrete is getting a good signal because I can see trigger events in the log when I revert to the old cam only settings, and when I probe directly on the pin I see the cam signal.

Adding a 5k resistor between cam/crank - and + inputs hasn't made a difference nor has changing the amplitude between +-1V and +-5V. At a simulated 2400RPM my trigger events look like this:
Trigger channel 1, 12 tooth crank, in tunerstudio
Trigger channel 1, 12 tooth crank, in tunerstudio
image.png (32.93 KiB) Viewed 579 times
for a given signal of this:
Wavegen output, crank sensor signal
Wavegen output, crank sensor signal
image.png (53.51 KiB) Viewed 579 times
For clarity, at the moment I'm debugging this using two function generator channels replaying captures of the cam and crank sensors and the ECU isn't currently on the bike as I'd like to avoid a repeat of whatever killed my last engine.
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Re: 99 Honda VFR800, PnP ECU NOW turbo EVENTUALLY

Post by coolantbongrips »

The last post can be ignored, I didn't realize tunerstudio doesn't accurately log trigger/ignition events at very short timescales. While fiddling with this I did notice some strange behavior from the Discrete VR conditioner.

For reference, the - pins on both the crank and cam sensors are common on the 5th gen VFR, and my setup has crank connected to the VR MAX input and cam connected to VR Discrete

With no crank sensor input, the VR Discrete conditioner worked at least up to a simulated 24000 RPM
VR Discrete output to MCU at simulated 24k RPM with no crank sensor signal
VR Discrete output to MCU at simulated 24k RPM with no crank sensor signal
image.png (57.28 KiB) Viewed 410 times
when a crank signal was present on the VR Max input the VR Discrete input would rapidly start dropping out around a simulated 3600RPM
VR Discrete output replaying cam and crank signals from function generator at 60RPS
VR Discrete output replaying cam and crank signals from function generator at 60RPS
image.png (29.48 KiB) Viewed 410 times
adding a 500mv offset to the VR- pin with a resistor divider powered off the 3.3v rail fixed this issue, so I haven't investigated further but hope this info may be useful to someone
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