frankenso vs frankenstein

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subnet
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frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by subnet »

hi all, i'm eyeing up these boards to use on a custom fi system for my truck. the things i'm looking at most are fuel maps, spark maps, and i'm wondering if there's any integration with o2 for afr on either of these boards (or if not, if there's a way to integrate that). does anyone have more information on these boards and what the pros/cons are for each of them? seems that i need to dive in to get started, but to dive in this is where i need to make a choice and would appreciate some help! :)
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AndreyB
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by AndreyB »

The boards are pretty close, Frankenso is a newer more integrated design with some tracing issues in rev 0.1 - see http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Hardware:For_Sale for brief a comparison on top of the page.

Both boards can input analog narrow-band or wide-band, the AFR would be shown on a gauge and forwarded to Tuner Studio.

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subnet
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by subnet »

Thank you, are the tracing issues documented somewhere here? Is there a reason I would want one of the boards over the other aside of the integration? Also although if they're close to the same it might not make a difference which one, can one of them be set up to output an SSR or relay signal while engine temp is lower than a specific number?
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by AndreyB »

http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware_Frankenso_board has the link to https://svn.code.sf.net/p/rusefi/code/trunk/hardware/frankenso/known_issues.txt and

http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware_Frankenstein_board now has a link to https://svn.code.sf.net/p/rusefi/code/trunk/hardware/frankenstein/known_issues.txt

I would probably go with Frankenso because of LCD screen and power supply, SD card to me is less important, but they are so close you can flip a coin to decide which one you need :)

that you describe looks like fan relay control? we have that. Also flexible configurable IO is work in progress should be ready pretty soon.
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subnet
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by subnet »

Ok thanks that does help. So last questions then before I make my decision:

1. about the tracing issue with the frankenso board - that won't be a problem if i order an assembled board since the board assembler won't misunderstand the tracing is that correct?

2. the sdcard that's built into the frankenstein board is for logging only, and if i have a laptop connected to the frankensco board i can log through the usb port so the sdcard is irrelevant with that in mind - is that correct?

3. the frankenso has sdcard capabilities, just that the socket hasn't been integrated yet?

4. the frankenso has built in bluetooth capabilities whereas the frankenstein does not. if that is the case, is the bluetooth chip integrated into the frankenso?

5. the flexible io work that's in progress is software and independent of the board chosen is that correct?

6. is there a new version of either board coming out in the next month or two?
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by AndreyB »

the boards stays the same regardless of who assemble it. Frankenso SD is not functional, same with Frankenso Bluetooth - it's not functional, again - the traces on the board are not going where they should be going.

yes SD is only for logging. configuration is kept inside the main chip flash memory, SD is not used for configuration

not sure we understand each other on tracing issues. Let's assume that SD card & BT which are claimed to be in Frankenso are not in fact there. SD and BT were placed with an error rending them nonfunctional. you can colder SD and BT to frankenso 0.1 but it would not function. would it be there? yes it would. would it work? no, it would not :)

#5 correct

#6 no idea. depends on too many factors. if suddenly someone donates $200 I will order a batch of rev 0.2 right away. If this suddenly does not happen I would wait till i sell all the 0.1 boards. it's kind of a lame policy but I am not sure how to resolve it - I need to limit the amount of $ I am wasting on all this
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by puff »

if i were you i would be asking how many injection/ignition channels are there on those boards, which sensors they support, etc. btw, what is your truck?
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by AndreyB »

both boards have the same number of channels :)
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by subnet »

thanks for the answers russian, and puff unless i'm misunderstanding the options and schematic shown at http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware_Frankenso_board i would have 12 analog inputs available, 12 injector outputs, and 6 ignition outputs, and the crank input - and not quite sure where the temp control would fit in. is that correct?

maybe i am rushing ahead too quickly; you said "if i were you i would be asking how many injection/ignition channels are there on those boards, which sensors they support, etc." <- that's exactly the kinds of things i'd like to know, is this information documented anywhere for both of these boards? i may have missed it, but i can't seem to find it.

my truck is a 98 blazer with a v6 however this is a custom system i'm setting up so it's not quite how it seems.. i'll get into that more and explain my scenario after i get past this hurdle and am starting to dive into things further :)
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by AndreyB »

you should be fine up to a v8
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by subnet »

thank you that's great to hear. i tried running the simulator so that i could have a look at the gui and see what's possible currently etc however unfortunately it doesn't seem to work on windows 8; unfortunately my laptop is windows 8. is this a known issue or is it something that only i am experiencing. i'm thinking if it's because of windows 8, i may be able to compile a version that will run on windows 8 - please let me know.

on a side note, is the current software able to handle a cold start injector (in other words on a 6 cyl, it'd be a 6+1 injector setup, or is that something that i would need to wait to have until the new flexible io logic is in place?
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by AndreyB »

subnet wrote:is this a known issue or is it something that only i am experiencing. i'm thinking if it's because of windows 8, i may be able to compile a version that will run on windows 8 - please let me know.
it's expected to work on windows 8 but since I do not have one I am unable to validate. Would you be able to install skype or google hangouts for us to chat, and teamviewer for me to log into your windows remotely?
subnet wrote: on a side note, is the current software able to handle a cold start injector (in other words on a 6 cyl, it'd be a 6+1 injector setup, or is that something that i would need to wait to have until the new flexible io logic is in place?
can you please describe this functionality with more details?
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by kb1gtt »

Some engine setups used a cold start injector, such that a 6 cyl would have 7 injectors. The theory was that the upstream injector would allow more time for the air to mix and atomize making it more combustible during cold cranking. At low RPM and cold conditions, you may not have the proper fuel mixture in the spark plug area when it fires. I have not seen this recent engines, as we now have multispark which has really helped with the cold starting. When the extra injector was used, it was a direct simulation of the priming pulse. So same thing as the carb's when you pump the gas and the accelerator pump dumps in some extra fuel. If the eCU sensor was below blah degrees, it would fire that injector when the key was turned on and before cranking happened, to create a priming fuel pulse.
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by AndreyB »

Sounds like that's a perfect use case for the flexible outputs which are coming pretty soon
time_since_boot < 2 AND coolant < 60
smth like that :)
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by subnet »

russian wrote:Sounds like that's a perfect use case for the flexible outputs which are coming pretty soon
time_since_boot < 2 AND coolant < 60
smth like that :)
love it, perfect!

re the simulator sounds great i've got the day off so i can focus on that when you're available, i'll add you on skype. thanks!
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Re: frankenso vs frankenstein

Post by AndreyB »

subnet wrote:i tried running the simulator so that i could have a look at the gui and see what's possible currently etc however unfortunately it doesn't seem to work on windows 8
turned out there was a bug in the simulator, thank you for bringing this up!

Either the window build server was not crashing since it's running win XP or that part of the testing system is really lame :(
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