[rusEfi] Nissan engine KA24DE #36

What engine are you torturing? Is it inside some car?
filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Nissan engine KA24DE #36

Post by filip5 » Mon May 08, 2017 2:23 am

Can someone help with trigger configuration for a Nissan ( engine KA24DE) which has a 180 degree reference signal and a 360 pulse signal from the camshaft( 360 pulses or I could use 720 pulses for 2 rotations)?

stefanst
contributor
contributor
Posts: 540
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:24 am

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by stefanst » Tue May 09, 2017 1:10 am

I thought that was an old-school distributor engine. Any pictures of the trigger wheels?

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Wed May 10, 2017 2:21 pm

Hi ,

Attached is the original Nissan distributor that has 180degree ref and 1 degree pulse out of 360 degree rotation. The megasquirt recommends replacing it with these 2 discs. One has a hole in it.
Attachments
TW-SR20.jpg
TW-SR20.jpg (199.23 KiB) Viewed 3324 times
images.jpg
images.jpg (6.41 KiB) Viewed 3324 times
174_4c7f162a50005.jpg
174_4c7f162a50005.jpg (104.33 KiB) Viewed 3324 times

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9521
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by russian » Wed May 10, 2017 3:43 pm

Please do not double-post same information on two different threads, I believe this is creating some confusion.

On the pictures above I see two different wheels. I believe the wheels above with one large one and without 360 are after-market wheels. I believe the wheel below with 360 is the original wheel, and the second channel is NOT single tooth there but four tooth with one slot bitter than others.

We need to focus on ONE correct wheel for you specific engine. Have you tried existing nissan trigger signal?

http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title= ... ger#Nissan looks like the bottom wheel - still without the 360 slots but it runs like that.
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Fri May 12, 2017 2:31 pm

Attached is the engine sniffer for nissan altima 94 with existing cam/crank sensor as it was posted here previously. Can anybody tell if the ignition outputs for cylinder 1(PC9),2(PC7),3(PE14),and 4(PE12) together with injectors 1(pin is NONE for now it is supposed to be on PE6 but it is giving me a conflict with another output GPIO_1 so I removed it for now) ,2(PE4),3(PD3) and 4 (PC13) are firing correctly?
Attachments
2017-05-12_10_19_27rpm_0_maf_0.0.png
2017-05-12_10_19_27rpm_0_maf_0.0.png (64.88 KiB) Viewed 3277 times

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9521
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by russian » Fri May 12, 2017 3:32 pm

Is this on real car which real starter? Were injectors/coils connected? Plugs in?

It looks close but not sure if it's perfect. Green line is your top dead center #1 line - it should be consistently positioned with the signals and will coil. One of them looked great with coil #1 just before the green line like you would expect.
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Fri May 12, 2017 5:16 pm

I do not see ign coil #2 that is PC7 and if PE12
as firing. I did not see led firing as well.
Does the graph display anything wrong about them?

The injector coils seem to fire correctly.

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9521
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by russian » Fri May 12, 2017 6:36 pm

Coil#2 is there but it's not mapped as default pinout document says (it says PE14 next to COIL#2 on the left of the picture) - that's my fault, I've temporary set my engine as default engine in preparation for this race.

If you do
set engine_type 0
in console you would get true default pin-out.

Same would explain GPIO_1 conflict. Actually I've just changed the name from too generit GPIO to FSIO_OUT. Sorry for the confusion, defaults would be set back properly on Monday and set engine_type 0 would not be required.
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Sat May 13, 2017 6:35 pm

It looks like there are some outputs and inputs that are used but not displayed what they are used for. I guess it would be helpful if all inputs/outputs are displayed and if there is any that should not be touched or modified it should be greyed out. Just a thought that in my case would be very helpful. By the way I got Nissan all figured out I think. Thanks for the help.

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9521
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by russian » Mon May 15, 2017 8:52 am

filip5 wrote:It looks like there are some outputs and inputs that are used but not displayed what they are used for. I guess it would be helpful if all inputs/outputs are displayed and if there is any that should not be touched or modified it should be greyed out.
Can you please provide an example?
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Tue May 16, 2017 3:26 pm

I think you it was done already. Rusefi is displaying now all outputs and inputs and what they are used for.

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Sun May 21, 2017 1:06 pm

Can someone check why the second ignition coil on this picture shows a smaller dwell time than the first ignition coil, while ignition coil 3 and coil 4 have almost the same amount of dwell time.

This seems to happen when dwell is set at somewhere between 3.5ms and 4ms( see attached test1). If I set dwell at 2ms it seems to assign the same dwell time on 4 ignition coils(see attached test2).
Attachments
2017-05-13_3200rpm Test2.png
2017-05-13_3200rpm Test2.png (51.07 KiB) Viewed 3136 times
Nissan 4 coils2017-05-13_14_17_05rpm_0_maf_NaN Test1.png
Nissan 4 coils2017-05-13_14_17_05rpm_0_maf_NaN Test1.png (54.32 KiB) Viewed 3136 times

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9521
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by russian » Sun May 21, 2017 1:46 pm

Very limited telepathic abilities. Is this some sort of simulation or real engine? What is the RPM? Please post CurrentTune.msq from TunerStudio.
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Sun May 21, 2017 8:58 pm

Yes,

Attached.
Attachments
2017-05-21_15_25_37rpm_3831rpm_maf_1.5 Dwell 3.5ms .png
2017-05-21_15_25_37rpm_3831rpm_maf_1.5 Dwell 3.5ms .png (36.62 KiB) Viewed 3117 times
2017-05-21_15_23_3840rpm_maf_1.51 Dwell 3.5ms.png
2017-05-21_15_23_3840rpm_maf_1.51 Dwell 3.5ms.png (37.73 KiB) Viewed 3117 times
2017-05-21_15.34.10 Dwell 3.5ms.msq
(138.96 KiB) Downloaded 152 times
2017-05-21_15_23_3812rpm_maf_1.51 Dwell 2ms.png
2017-05-21_15_23_3812rpm_maf_1.51 Dwell 2ms.png (37.96 KiB) Viewed 3117 times
2017-05-21_15.34.10 Dwell 2ms.msq
(138.96 KiB) Downloaded 143 times

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9521
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by russian » Sun May 21, 2017 9:43 pm

russian wrote:Very limited telepathic abilities. (1) Is this some sort of simulation or real engine? (2) What is the RPM?
filip5 wrote:Yes
Can you please help me help you? Please provide a defailed response to both questions.

With very limited information you are sharing I would guess you are using some sort of external simulated signal? I would also suspect that the shape of the signal you provide does not match the shape of signal the firmware is expecting.
Attachments
2017-05-21_17_42_05rpm_4300_maf_NaN.png
2017-05-21_17_42_05rpm_4300_maf_NaN.png (33.01 KiB) Viewed 3108 times
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Sun May 21, 2017 9:44 pm

The RPMs are written in the file names. This is an engine that is running.

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Sun May 21, 2017 9:47 pm

Dwell is written too in the file names. As you can see from the files when dwell is set at 2ms, it is almost the same for all 4 coils. When dwell is set at 3.5 ms than the coils 3 and 4 are close but coil 1 and 2 vary.

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Sun May 21, 2017 9:48 pm

The file that you submitted looks good but if you tried 4ms dwell you will see what I am discussing, or to be exact try dwell 3.5ms which I am using.

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9521
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by russian » Sun May 21, 2017 9:54 pm

I believe this is about expected and actual shape mismatch. I hope to have a tool to help us troubleshoot this in about 20 minutes.
Attachments
2017-05-21_17_53_48rpm_4300_maf_NaN.png
2017-05-21_17_53_48rpm_4300_maf_NaN.png (32.44 KiB) Viewed 3104 times
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Sun May 21, 2017 9:57 pm

Ok, thanks. I am concerned that operating this way one coil will saturate and get hot and the other will under perform if what I am seeing in engine sniffing is true.

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9521
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by russian » Sun May 21, 2017 10:14 pm

Are you running your engine on rusEfi or are you just sniffing signals? If you are running an engine I would love to see a video of your setup!

New tool ready, would take about 45 minutes for new bundle to include new version of console.

step 1) set 'sensor sniffer' to 'trigger' mode
step 2) look at new tool and compare how far are your angles from angles firmware reports with self-stimlation since these are the expected angles at the moment. There is a good chance that the angles recorded previously were not great and we would be able to correct them a bit which would make your coil control more precise.
Attachments
screenshot_new_tool.png
screenshot_new_tool.png (76.4 KiB) Viewed 3105 times
screenshot_prereq.png
screenshot_prereq.png (67.18 KiB) Viewed 3105 times
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Sun May 21, 2017 10:22 pm

When I am done I will ask you to come and see it, right now I am just fine tuning and calibrating items.

User avatar
kb1gtt
contributor
contributor
Posts: 3407
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:42 am
Location: ME of USA
Contact:

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by kb1gtt » Sun May 21, 2017 10:52 pm

Is this a rusEFI only engine? Or is this 50% OEM and 50% rusEFI? There are many things you know that we do not. A quick picture or quick video is a great help. Or at minimum a brief write up about what is going on is very helpful to those of us that have not physically seen the setup. Also please keep in mind that what may appear to be 1 issue to you, often appears as 40 potential issues to the developers. The more information you provide, the faster developers can eliminate the 39 other possible issues.

Is rusEFI the only source for ignition, or is the ignition potentially driven by an external device like and OEM ECU?
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy :)

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Mon May 22, 2017 12:30 am

Ok. I think it is probably the Nissan camshaft sensor that is causing it. I just saw your picture posted with 4ms dwell time and it seems decent and the same for all coils.
Thank you.

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by filip5 » Mon May 22, 2017 7:17 pm

I just noticed something that might be of interest. I see the problem happening with ignition coils 1 and 2 dwell time as soon as I pass 2,600 rpm it looks like. At 2,590 rpm the problem does not show up
and coils have the same dwell time that is about 3.50ms.

I noticed that your default sniffer for engine and sensor is set at about that value for max sniffing. Do you think might be a issue there? I see that you do not have that problem at 4,300rpm that you posted though.

Attached are some pictures with rpm data in their file names. For some reason the sensor sniffing files came dark but you still can see the graph.
Attachments
2017-05-22_1875 RPM_sensor.png
2017-05-22_1875 RPM_sensor.png (10.17 KiB) Viewed 3038 times
2017-05-23_3261_sensor with 3274 rpm.png
2017-05-23_3261_sensor with 3274 rpm.png (10.13 KiB) Viewed 3038 times
2017-05-22_14_2605rpm Problem starts_maf_1.5.png
2017-05-22_14_2605rpm Problem starts_maf_1.5.png (34.08 KiB) Viewed 3038 times
2017-05-22_14_2590 rpm works fine_maf_1.47.png
2017-05-22_14_2590 rpm works fine_maf_1.47.png (34.31 KiB) Viewed 3038 times

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9521
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE

Post by russian » Mon May 22, 2017 7:25 pm

kb1gtt wrote:Is this a rusEFI only engine? Or is this 50% OEM and 50% rusEFI? There are many things you know that we do not. A quick picture or quick video is a great help. Or at minimum a brief write up about what is going on is very helpful to those of us that have not physically seen the setup. Also please keep in mind that what may appear to be 1 issue to you, often appears as 40 potential issues to the developers. The more information you provide, the faster developers can eliminate the 39 other possible issues.

Is rusEFI the only source for ignition, or is the ignition potentially driven by an external device like and OEM ECU?
?
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9521
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE #36

Post by russian » Tue May 23, 2017 12:51 am

[video][/video]

http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title= ... g_cranking

I was recently suprised by how much fuel is needed to start my green race car nicer - cranking base fuel of 9ms, which is then multiplied by 1.5 "cranking duration correction". I am still not happy with the way my green car starts, and that's strange since red car seems to start better.
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9521
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE #36

Post by russian » Tue May 23, 2017 12:53 am

Another thing - can you please post a screen shot of your Trigger Shape pane similar to screenshot_new_tool.png above? I suspect that rusEfi angle information for your nissan 4+1 trigger is not precise enought, I thikn that you can produce more accurate values using this tool and I would be able to improve the data in the firmware which would improve precision of your dwell duration.
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

filip5
donator
donator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE #36

Post by filip5 » Sat May 27, 2017 8:48 pm

Hi guys,
Here I have an issue with the VE table. Does not seem to work properly.

Let say that I have set the VE table at 3.56ms injection table for the entire table. Now if I keep the MAP set at 10% than as I increase the RPM by opening throttle the injection time
remains consonant at 3.56ms more or less which is good because it supposed to stay contstant. Remember the VE table is constant. MAP sensor let say is disconnected.

When I increase the MAP pressure by connecting the sensor and opening throttle the injection time increases even though the VE table says it should stay the same.

Is that anything else effecting the injection time beside VE table? Attached are the log files and tuning file.

Thanks
Attachments
Map more than 10% changing but VE table constantRPM changing injection time changing.msl
(100.11 KiB) Downloaded 346 times
Map 10% not changing VE table constant RPM changing injection time not changing.msl
(73.96 KiB) Downloaded 366 times
2017-05-27_16.13.09 MAP test.msq
(135.29 KiB) Downloaded 149 times

User avatar
russian
Site Admin
Posts: 9521
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Soldering skill: yes
Coding skill?: yes
Contact:

Re: Nissan engine KA24DE #36

Post by russian » Sat May 27, 2017 9:09 pm

filip5 wrote:Let say that I have set the VE table at 3.56ms injection table for the entire table. Now if I keep the MAP set at 10% than as I increase the RPM by opening throttle the injection time
remains consonant st 3.56ms more or less which is good. Remember the VE table is constant. MAP sensor let say is disconnected.
VE table axises are RPM and MAP measured in kPa. Just fixed a typo where VE asix was labeled "MAPValue %" this was a typo, should read "MAP kPa". Will look at the logs in a bit!
Attachments
screenshot.png
screenshot.png (82.84 KiB) Viewed 2871 times
https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions
my skype is arro239

Post Reply