1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

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WarlockSyno
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1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by WarlockSyno »

Hello!

I'm currently in the process of swapping a 1998 Chrysler 3.8L into a 1989 Dodge Daytona ES.

If you want to know more about the build, I have some posts here:

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f279/939418-3-8l-swap-1989-dodge-daytona.html

Videos:
Build Log 01 | Build Log 02

Anyways, the reason I was posting here is because I saw a few videos over on RusEFI's YouTube channel of them running some cars, including a Dodge Neon. I contact RusEFI and he told me to drop a post here about my project!

I can actually swap in the stock electronics in the van and have it running fine, which is what I'm doing initially any way. But I want to mod this engine! The stock ECU does have have the ability to be tuned but it's quiet the venture, and probably more worth it to go full standalone in the future anyway.

I've compiled a list of mods that can be done to the motor:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?81218-Chrysler-3-3-3-8-Performance-and-Info

In my instance, I'm wanting to turbo/supercharge the engine using a standalone. I can easily piggyback the engine but timing adjustments can't be made with a piggy back. I could do MegaSquirt, but MegaSquirt doesn't support the cam trigger pattern, thus I can't use sequential injection, just batch fire. That's no fun!

So I was hoping we could use this thread as a discussing ground to get the 3.3/3.8 family added to the code! Some of the code would already exist because of the Dodge Neon project being run on RusEFI, that uses the NGC trigger wheel, which can be swapped on the V6 motor. So no problem there.


Just let me all know of what you think!
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WarlockSyno
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 3:47 pm

1989 Dodge Daytona with a '98 Chrysler 3.8L

Post by WarlockSyno »

Hello!

I'm currently in the process of swapping a 1998 Chrysler 3.8L into a 1989 Dodge Daytona ES.

If you want to know more about the build, I have some posts here:

http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/f279/939418-3-8l-swap-1989-dodge-daytona.html

Videos:
Build Log 01 | Build Log 02

Anyways, the reason I was posting here is because I saw a few videos over on RusEFI's YouTube channel of them running some cars, including a Dodge Neon. I contact RusEFI and he told me to drop a post here about my project!

I can actually swap in the stock electronics in the van and have it running fine, which is what I'm doing initially any way. But I want to mod this engine! The stock ECU does have have the ability to be tuned but it's quiet the venture, and probably more worth it to go full standalone in the future anyway.

I've compiled a list of mods that can be done to the motor:
http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/showthread.php?81218-Chrysler-3-3-3-8-Performance-and-Info

In my instance, I'm wanting to turbo/supercharge the engine using a standalone. I can easily piggyback the engine but timing adjustments can't be made with a piggy back. I could do MegaSquirt, but MegaSquirt doesn't support the cam trigger pattern, thus I can't use sequential injection, just batch fire. That's no fun!

So I was hoping we could use this thread as a discussing ground to get the 3.3/3.8 family added to the code! Some of the code would already exist because of the Dodge Neon project being run on RusEFI, that uses the NGC trigger wheel, which can be swapped on the V6 motor. So no problem there.


Just let me all know of what you think!
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AndreyB
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by AndreyB »

Welcome!

I believe http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware_Frankenso_board board would run this engine just fine. I can definitely add trigger code - ideally some documentation would help but technically we can live without it, once you have engine spinning on rusEfi we can record the signal and make the decoder based on that.
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by kb1gtt »

Yes welcome along.

Sounds like a cool project. Feel free to ask questions and let me know if I can be of help.
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WarlockSyno
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by WarlockSyno »

When it came to wiring the Neon, did you take the factory harness and cut the factory connectors off, then wire in the RusEFI compatible in the right pinout? The harness between the 3.8L and the 2.0L Neon aren't all that far apart since the Chrysler vans did come with a 2.4L (bored and stroked 2.0L).

I need to rewire the V6 engine harness to work with the body harness on the car, so it's not that much work to get it compatibly with RusEFI off the get go.
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by stefanst »

Cool project. Big engine - small car is almost always a recipe for fun. I actually had a '99 3.8L Grand Caravan many years back (there are some dark spots in my past) and was always impressed with the torque and pick-up off the line.

The trigger pattern looks a bit odd, but shouldn't be a problem. Certainly no big challenge for our developers' coding skills.

Any information on the ignition system? I assume logic-level triggered wasted spark? What type of idle air control? No variable valve timing or other shenanigans?
WarlockSyno
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by WarlockSyno »

I'm not sure what the trigger pattern is, and I think it uses a hal effect on the cam sprocket, at least that's what it looks like sticking out of the timing cover.

The ignition from what I understand uses a wasted spark by either using 3 triggers or 2. It uses a very similar igntion system to the Neon, but with just 2 added spark plugs.
A Hall Effect sensor on the transaxle bell housing and another on the engine front cover module sent out information about the crankshaft’s position and speed; the computer could figure out the injection/ignition sequence within a single crank for fast starting.

The early triple-coil setup fired two plugs at once, one to ignite the fuel, the other sparking during the exhaust cycle (so they wouldn’t need six coils). Spark plugs were gapped to 0.050 inches.
Source: http://www.allpar.com/mopar/33.html


No VVT, nothing special. It's just a basic old V6. I'll have to look into what it uses for airflow.
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by AndreyB »

WarlockSyno wrote:When it came to wiring the Neon, did you take the factory harness and cut the factory connectors off, then wire in the RusEFI compatible in the right pinout?
Actually no - my point was to keep original ECU for inspection / fall-back / reference point, so harness was not changed. We've wired Frankenso to a little adapter board which had pieces of ECU to mate with harness. See first and third pages of http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=696&start=60#p16049
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WarlockSyno
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by WarlockSyno »

russian wrote:my point was to keep original ECU for inspection / fall-back / reference point, so harness was not changed.
That's really cool! Perfect! That's something I can do!

So basically, the main thing you need is the trigger pattern / signal from the cam? I'm almost done building the engine. Constantly having to stop because of random issues. But it's just about done and ready to throw in the car.
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by AndreyB »

https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/Yzlew14V it would take them about 3 weeks to make these boards for you, not sure if you need one set of three or two sets to use four connectors.
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by kb1gtt »

What connector does it use? Is that the same connector as this OSHPark board? Do you have an extra ECU to scavenge a connector from? Basically extra ECU from ebay or local salvage yard, then take it apart, re-claim the connector. if you get a pig tail with the ECU you can often make a short extension cable such that you can move one wire at a time.
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WarlockSyno
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by WarlockSyno »

It uses this connector:

Image

That's for a '96, but I believe they're all the same from at least 91-2000. Not sure if they're the same past that. I could take a picture of my SRT-4 or PT Cruiser GT PCM connectors. That should be similar to 2001-2008 connectors.
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by AndreyB »

Looks a bit different from manual 2003 Dodge Neon which has used three 38 pin connectors, fourth 38 pin was not populated on manual car.
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WarlockSyno
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by WarlockSyno »

You're right. The PCM on my GT Cruiser has 4 connectors, while my SRT-4 has 3. They probably are a different count connector from the RusEFI Neon and my '98 PCM. Chrysler switched to NGC and a lot of other stuff after 2001. But I could technically just use a 2001+ wiring harness. Nothing really changed year to year on these engines. The big changes were from 2001+. New heads, different compression, slightly different cam, and new intake design. Everything else is pretty much the same.
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by AndreyB »

If you have an option to use a ngc harness it would mke things a bit nicer connector-wise.

Or dont bother with stock ecu and change to honda/mazda 64 pin rusefi connector
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WarlockSyno
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by WarlockSyno »

Hello!

In hopes of getting this kickstarted, I've made a thread on Speeduino as well. Maybe we can all work together to get this figured out.

https://speeduino.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=1582&p=23310#p23310
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by AndreyB »

What is the exact problem we are trying to address?

In rusEfi trigger decoder is very flexible. While users are not able to define their trigger themselves, it takes me no time to add support for any new trigger for anyone with rusEfi compatible hardware. So if trigger is the problem it is not really a problem, get some electronics with rusEfi firmware and I will get you the trigger code.
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WarlockSyno
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by WarlockSyno »

Basically afaik, the cam trigger is not supported by most after market. My engine is currently on an engine stand, so it's hard for me to get the signal. I do have another vehicle with the same engine however. Would it be as simple as hooking up the cam sensor to RusEFI and running the starter to have it pickup the pattern?
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Re: 1989 Dodge Daytona ES with a '98 Caravan 3.8L

Post by AndreyB »

WarlockSyno wrote:Would it be as simple as hooking up the cam sensor to RusEFI and running the starter to have it pickup the pattern?
Yes, between the pictures you have and cranking car with starter without spark plugs we have everything to add this trigger into rusEfi.
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