[rusEfi] 2000 Miata Turbo #39

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NBytevenom
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2000 Miata Turbo #39

Post by NBytevenom »

Hello All!

I successfully drove my car today on Rusefi. I did not have much time, but I was able to take a short spin and hit boost. Everything seemed to be in order except for a few weird backfires occasionally.
My ignition timing is definitely off. With more time, I'll be able to ensure its synced up.
Does anyone mind clarifying how to use a timing gun (...never had to use one)? If my timing is fixed at 10 degrees (Where would I find that setting in TS btw?).
I should set my timing gun's advance to 10 degrees, and then my timing marks on my car should be perfectly lined up (if my offset is set correctly).

My acceleration enrichment seemed to be working. However I'm seeing a few settings that I don't understand exactly.
  • Engine load acceleration enrichment taper - shouldn't this be controlled by the VE table?
  • TPS/TPS acceleration extra fuel - Is this prev TPS vs current TPS (delta TPS)? What does the value in the table correspond to? Added VE?
  • Knock settings - Does anyone have recommendations for these settings yet? I haven't been able to drive the car long enough to do my own research into this.
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AndreyB
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by AndreyB »

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/blob/master/firmware/tunerstudio/docs/1-Base_Engine_Settings.png fixed timing is what you need while playing with the gun.

Not sure what is the question about engine load enrichment but the whole engine load based needs rework please ignore it, realistically all you can use is tps tps strategy. Just added "alpha version" label.

Knock settings - pretty alpha version, no proven results so far requires further validation.
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by AndreyB »

Just replaced one "TPS/TPS acceleration Multiplier" with proper "TPS/TPS Acceleration Extra Fuel". Thank you for your patience :)
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by AndreyB »

NBytevenom wrote:I successfully drove my car today on Rusef
Video and a picture of under the hood? Curious to see your turbo setup! I am again thinking about something similar for my 2003ish.
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NBytevenom
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by NBytevenom »

I'll post pics and a driving video when I get home from Scotland (wish my car was here, the roads and views are incredible).
I just got a China GoPro (50$ on AliExpress!), my last one got stolen, but it was fantastic.
It should be able to Clamp onto the rollbar (Hard dog hard core M1)

My turbo setup is as follows:
eBay cast manifold T25
SR20 T25 with stock IWG (I think 8 psi?)
2.5 Downpipe dabbed up by me.....rest of the exhaust needs to be put together (ugh the troubles of fanning your own shit)
Mustang 640cc injectors, flowforce (forceflow?) adapter kit
Braided water lines...I've seen people adapt the stock miata water fittings to some sort of AN fitting. I'm still looking into this. Currently I have a barb fitting at the end which finishes the job with a rubber hose.
Oil lines: just a silicon hose for the drain, and a braided feed from the back of the head. I still need to find out if I'm slowly murdering my head this way.

I honestly HATE making AN lines, I can never get a good cut with whatever tool I use. I have a fine hacksaw which sort of works, my reciprocating saw works sometimes, and my angle grinder with a cutting disk is also iffy.
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by KLAS »

NBytevenom wrote: I honestly HATE making AN lines, I can never get a good cut with whatever tool I use. I have a fine hacksaw which sort of works, my reciprocating saw works sometimes, and my angle grinder with a cutting disk is also iffy.
ever tried a wood chisel? a sharp one with a good hammer blow will cut fast and clean. i prefer a lead block as support, but a wood board should work, too
NBytevenom
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by NBytevenom »

KLAS wrote:
NBytevenom wrote: I honestly HATE making AN lines, I can never get a good cut with whatever tool I use. I have a fine hacksaw which sort of works, my reciprocating saw works sometimes, and my angle grinder with a cutting disk is also iffy.
ever tried a wood chisel? a sharp one with a good hammer blow will cut fast and clean. i prefer a lead block as support, but a wood board should work, too
I ordered like 15 extra feet when I noticed how hard it was to make new ones, so I have room to try that method!
NBytevenom
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by NBytevenom »

Does injection phase listen to timing offset?
My CPS is relocated, so I had to change my timing offset to -2. Should I also change the injection offset to -2?
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by mck1117 »

NBytevenom wrote:Does injection phase listen to timing offset?
My CPS is relocated, so I had to change my timing offset to -2. Should I also change the injection offset to -2?
Nope, it's offset from TDC, just like ignition timing. The timing offset changes the offset on anything that's timed to the crank rotation.
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by AndreyB »

NBytevenom wrote:My CPS is relocated, so I had to change my timing offset to -2.
if your CPS is moved maybe better change global trigger offset so that you have real TDC position and you do not need to shift any timings?

Also do you really care for 2 deg of injection timing?
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NBytevenom
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by NBytevenom »

russian wrote:
NBytevenom wrote:My CPS is relocated, so I had to change my timing offset to -2.
if your CPS is moved maybe better change global trigger offset so that you have real TDC position and you do not need to shift any timings?

Also do you really care for 2 deg of injection timing?
Under "Setup Trigger Offset" (something like that, the second option under the first tab), I have my offset set to -2, which according to my timing gun, meant that everything's in order.

I just wanted to ensure that the injection phase also listened to that offset. If I understand correctly, and it does, then I'm all set.
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by NBytevenom »

2017-09-21_11.13.49.msl
(1.31 MiB) Downloaded 682 times
Alright car is finally running, and doesn't sound like hell unleashed (no more open downpipe).
Couple of questions:
Knock? Has any research been done on the knock thresholds for a Turbo'd 00 Miata? I've got an image attached of my thresholds that I've established based off the attached log.

SD Card logging. How do I go about accessing the SD card without removing it from the Rusefi? Möglich?

Also, my tacho is hilariously off. It doesn't react until I'm at about 1500 RPM (engine), and then it (gauge) sits at like 800 RPM.
Rise at trigger index: 4
Pulse duration: 6ms
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AndreyB
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by AndreyB »

hip9011 Settings (knock decoder) (alpha version) - alpha version - very alpha version.

Accessing SD without card removal - no way to do it, there is https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/140

My tach just works :( Not sure what could be wrong.
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NBytevenom
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by NBytevenom »

russian wrote:hip9011 Settings (knock decoder) (alpha version) - alpha version - very alpha version.

Accessing SD without card removal - no way to do it, there is https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/140

My tach just works :( Not sure what could be wrong.
Do I need to specify a dizzy output? The same pin as tachout?
NBytevenom
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by NBytevenom »

What does PC6 read? Cam or Crank sensor?
I'm not getting a good trigger on PC6, which is causing no spark/rpm read.
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by AndreyB »

For non-VVT NB miata, cam is the "primary" signal and crank is the "secondary" signal.
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by NBytevenom »

russian wrote:For non-VVT NB miata, cam is the "primary" signal and crank is the "secondary" signal.
It turns out as I was removing the AC compressor from my car, I bumped the crank sensor. This changed the gap on the sensor, and made the computer think nothing was happening down there/very intermittent.

Got the car to stumble, then figured that maybe I had jumped timing while my engine was backfiring...turned out both cams had turned a decent amount of degrees. Its offputting that they're almost symmetrically missaligned. Intake was at about 11 o clock and exhaust was at about 1 o clock. I'm certain I was at TDC.
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by AndreyB »

Jumped timing as in actually skipping teeth on the belt? Wow. How curtain are you?

Obviosly I had a LOT of backfiring while playing with all this but never any consequences on the belts. But you can always be the first one :)
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by NBytevenom »

russian wrote:Jumped timing as in actually skipping teeth on the belt? Wow. How curtain are you?

Obviosly I had a LOT of backfiring while playing with all this but never any consequences on the belts. But you can always be the first one :)
I heard a very squeaking when trying to get the car to start, and then suddenly I got no more RPMs synced! My crank seal I believe is leaking, could be lubricating the belt.
This motors coming out soon, and going to be replaced with one that has better rods/less fuckery.

The timing marks on my NB1 pulley were spot on with TDC, I did not verify with a long screwdriver down the sparkplug hole however.

I'm going to look into building a stim of sorts with an arduino and a DIY squarewave generator to see if I can dial in VSS. .1 as a multiplier resulted in 0 speed being indicated haha.

I don't have much time to play around with the car - the circuits course I'm taking is kicking my ass.

Maybe also look into writing something that can convert rusefi logs to be taken into virtual dyno? I want some generated nums, so I can be a cool kid too with "dyno" runs.
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by NBytevenom »

Tach shenanigans:

I'm not too sure how the tach works exactly. Stepper motor. If I have too low a voltage going to the tach, will it work intermittently?
I can check the tach voltage from the pin in the diag box. If its 5v, should I go to the jumper on the board for the tach out and switch to 12V?
PE8.PNG
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DOHL6Jumper.PNG
DOHL6Jumper.PNG (15.67 KiB) Viewed 20813 times
My current tachout is coming from PE8. If my reading is correct, I should move that Conn_3 jumper go 12v?
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by RadMx5 »

I found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufWLsmFZfsM

Watch carefully and you see he uses the 12V side of the sparkfun driver shown in the video. To proof this I have attached a photo of the driver board he used in that video.
I'm not sure if this matters but he has also used a 1K pullup resistor to control the gauge, maybe kb1gtt can comment this.

P.S I'm not sure if all the miatas have the same signal amplitude :?
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by AndreyB »

My NB2 miata uses PE8 high-side driver - the tach reads frequency of the signal and the rest of the stepper magic is taken care by the cluster itself. Do not remember if +5 or +12 vp but I can check if needed - but again, that would be NB2 not NB1.
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by kb1gtt »

RadMx5 wrote:I'm not sure if this matters but he has also used a 1K pullup resistor to control the gauge, maybe kb1gtt can comment this.
Best I can see with a blind fold on, is that the Miata input is a 12V input, as well it's a high impedance input. The hi/lo driver will provide the 12V and probably does not need the 1k ohm resistor, as the hi/lo will drive to 12V and 0V. The pull up is used when you only have a low side driver.
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by NBytevenom »

Tach will have to wait until I've got this new issue resolved. I'm pretty sure its hardware related (not on the board), that's causing this.
Basically, I can turn over all I want, but I can't get an RPM sync.
If I floor it, the starter motor has less load on it, RPMs go higher, sync occurs, then if I let off just a bit flood clear deactivates, and 1/5 times I can get the engine to start this way. It's just recently occurred after redoing injectors (there's a bunch of grounds there, I'm 90% sure I got them all) and removing AC.

I’ve also noticed while cranking, it’ll free crank (no ignition/injectors on - audible difference), then I hear a relay click under the dash, then the car starts to start, and sometimes it will fail and the clicking from under the dash goes again.
When I get sync with RPM, it seems to hinge together with relay (I assume) under the dash.

My thinking was that the AC system perhaps acted as another ground. So I added a cable from the TB to the chassis. Little to no improvement.
When cranking (and not getting sync), I get the following errors in console.

"340: gap=13.02/0.10/1.28 @ 8 while expected 0.08/0.13 and 0.00/100000.00 error=1"

"postMessage EngineState: error: synchronizationPoint @ index 128 expected 6/16/0 got 41/88/0"
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by kb1gtt »

Is yours hall or VR? Can you check that your sensors is installed fully? If it has come loose, it could get away from the gear and fail to generate the signal. Perhaps try running a GND direct from your board to battery. If GND is lifting at the ECU it could cause some problems.
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by NBytevenom »

kb1gtt wrote:Is yours hall or VR? Can you check that your sensors is installed fully? If it has come loose, it could get away from the gear and fail to generate the signal. Perhaps try running a GND direct from your board to battery. If GND is lifting at the ECU it could cause some problems.
Stock NB miata trigger system, so I think hall sensors that emulate VR? Something like that.
My crank sensor is hanging from an aluminum plate which uses the AC bracket as a 1 bolt mounting point (stock location broke off). Maybe since the engine is lighter now, the engine is vibrating more under cranking and therefore shaking the sensor around? Sounds silly, but really the only think that comes to mind.

How would you suggest running GND directly to the board? Running a 14 gauge wire from the trunk, under the carpet, around the dash, and then splicing into a stock GND wire?
-This confuses me because the engine runs perfectly well once it gets going.

What do those errors represent?
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by AndreyB »

NBytevenom wrote:Stock NB miata trigger system, so I think hall sensors that emulate VR? Something like that.
Stock miata. I believe physical VR emulating Hall signal on crank.
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by Abricos »

NBytevenom wrote:My crank sensor is hanging from an aluminum plate
take a photo ...
what is the gap between sensor and trigger wheel ???
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by kb1gtt »

Did you manage to keep the same gap on your sensor? It's possible your gap is larger or smaller than the original cap and it's creating a weak signal at low RPM.

How rigid is the mount? Could it vibrate and shake around some?
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Re: 2000 Miata Turbo

Post by NBytevenom »

kb1gtt wrote:Did you manage to keep the same gap on your sensor? It's possible your gap is larger or smaller than the original cap and it's creating a weak signal at low RPM.

How rigid is the mount? Could it vibrate and shake around some?
Yep crank sensor is gapped good. I use a .88mm feeler gauge to gap the sensor. I'll try to have someone crank the engine while I observe that sensor to see if its moving.
Cam sensor should not be having any gap issues. Afaik, it just plops in and no adjustment is possible.

My only like confusion here is why the car won't start unless the RPMs are higher. Like if I try to start with the throttle open, it revs higher (less load on starter), and thats a semi solid way to try to get the engine running. Once its running, it runs completely fine.
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