2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

What engine are you torturing? Is it inside some car?
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2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 am

While all this talk has been going on about direct injection, my daily driver(s) have VW 2.0T FSI engines. I recently got a second one, when I had some head drama's with my original engine. In the near future I'll have a fully functional extra car with a 2.0T FSI engine. So I guess it makes sense for me to start considering experimenting with it.

These are the two candidates I have.
2006 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro 230kmi. Newly manufactured head being installed when I write this. I'll have the old head as a spare.
2006 Audi A3 2.0T DSG FWD 210kmi. During the summer months, will be a 3rd vehicle for us, wife will drive it in the winter. So I shouldn't kill it, but I can experiment with it during the summer.

So I should see if I can find the connector for this engine harness, such that I can see if I can control this engine and it's various bits and pieces.
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:19 am

Next time you see your 2006 a4 can you look at the ECU? is it same as this https://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGINE-COMPUTE ... 2825858543

8E0 910 115 code googles into https://www.ebay.com/itm/06-Audi-A4-8E0 ... 1412761770 which mentions engine ID BPG

do you know if your engine is BPG?

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showthrea ... nt-BWT-BPG mentions BPG as 2.0T

What is the % of your 2006 a4 being fixed? if it's fixed do you want to waste $34 on a similar ECU just to look inside or use it as connector donor?
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:36 am

https://www.amazon.com/2006-AUDI-8E0910 ... B01LYWTYYJ says "Re-manufactured / flash programmed to To your VECHICLES VIN number. This ECU part number 8E0910115M has been rebuilt / reprogrammed, cleaned and tested. it comes fully programmed to work with your ignition key. Although, we will require your original unit so that we can guarantee proper Flash Programming. The entire process will take 2-5 business days. In the case that your original ECU is not available we can ship you a factory BLANK ecu that could then be programmed by your dealer."

so the above $34 ECU is great for looking inside with a DMM and as connecor donor.
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:38 am

From memory, the ECU is under the windshield, and under the windshield wiper motors, and kind of hard to get to. I can take a look at it, but I recall it was specifically installed in an area that was hard to get to, such that it's hard to steal the car.

The old head was a BPG, it's being changed to a BPY. I'll have to go check what head the A3 has. The A3 is the most likely to be modified. I need to keep the daily reliable. I hope to have the A4 back in a week or two. Last I heard the head was still being removed.

Oh, also I have the Rosstech VAGCOM HEX+CAN Interface cable. So I could log many things, then we could make our tune reproduce the same things under the same conditions. I can also program my own keys :)
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:49 am

kb1gtt wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:38 am
I can also program my own keys :)
US $33.74 and look inside for sure! :)
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by Abricos » Mon Jan 29, 2018 3:37 am

How many injectors do you have ....
6a00d8341c4fbe53ef01a3fc33785b970b-800wi.png
6a00d8341c4fbe53ef01a3fc33785b970b-800wi.png (152.33 KiB) Viewed 1952 times
6a00d8341c4fbe53ef01901e40c536970b-800wi.png
6a00d8341c4fbe53ef01901e40c536970b-800wi.png (418.4 KiB) Viewed 1952 times
075067volkswagenbeetleturboandjettaglige-1.png
075067volkswagenbeetleturboandjettaglige-1.png (374.56 KiB) Viewed 1952 times

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:41 am

I believe it's 1 injector per cyl. I'll look closer to double check if there is another set hiding below the manifold. With 1 injector per cyl, I would expect carbon build up issues. However it seems to breath just fine with +200kmil. As well at around 150kmi I checked the A4 for carbon build up with a bore scope and I did not see any build up. So perhaps there are some washing injectors hiding somewhere. I also know that if this engine was 1 year newer, it would have a timing chain, where this one has a timing belt. Also this is gas injection, and at low RPM you still have spark events. I understand the FSI happens at about 2kRPM. So I need spark control at lower RPM's. It's coil on plug, so igniters are included with the coils. The attached picture is the engine that is in the A3. The A4 has the same engine, but slightly different external bits, and is mounted forward while the A3 is side ways mounted. This picture shows only one injector.
FSI.jpg
FSI.jpg (75.64 KiB) Viewed 1946 times
Also there is room for HP increases, see this torque curve. Basically the OEM runs right to the NOX emissions limits and keeps the cyl pressure right there the entire time. So the torque curve is flat where it's normally curved. If you could ignore the NOX limit, you could free up a bunch more HP out of this engine.
fsi_torque.jpg
fsi_torque.jpg (37.35 KiB) Viewed 1946 times
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by Abricos » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:21 pm

Yep :) stage 1 stock engine software upgrade ...
20tfsi_trans_stage1_93_engine.gif
20tfsi_trans_stage1_93_engine.gif (38.71 KiB) Viewed 1944 times

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:36 pm

The A3 is quite a bit more peppy than the A4. I'm not sure how much of that is the DSG vs torque converter quattro, but I suspect it could have a stage 1 done to it. Do you know if there is a way to check if it has a stage 1 upgrade?

Per the charts, I see the stage 1 is a 56kW (75HP) increase in peak power.
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by Abricos » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:16 pm

If you have APR upgrade it have cruise control magic ...
Check attachment...
Or use VAG com to check firmware version ...
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dpp_emcs_instructions.pdf
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:59 pm

A week or so ago, I got this warning. It cleared when I cycled the key and has not come back. Does anyone know what this is trying to tell me? It's not in the owners manual. Here are my guesses.

-- The car is angry and it wants me to quit driving like a turtle.
-- Propane is getting low (it's a gas car).
-- Barbecue grill just exploded, so get some take out on your way home.
-- X marks the spot, so I can find the treasure in the turtle located in my break pads.

I really have no idea what this is trying to tell me. It happened when turning, so perhaps it was some how related to the steering. If someone knows a real answer, I'm all ears. I can't seem to figure this one out.

[edit]
I get this error message when I attach a file
ERROR
It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image. Please verify that the URL you entered is correct.
[/edit]
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:05 pm

I guess this page tells me that it's a brake light warning. I do not know why this reset when I cycled the key.
http://www.partwise.co.uk/blog/car-dash ... they-mean/
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:45 am

Hi!

I am very interested in a Vw/Audi Plug and play Standalone.

I have the schematics, component lists, layout etc for all ME7 and 7.5 ECU's.

If this would be helpful, just contact me to get all of them.
Last edited by 960 on Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:27 am

960 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:45 am
I am very interested in a Vw/Audi Plug and play Standalone
Hey there! OEM Ecu internals are helpful but what is needed much more is time, skills and resources - probably in that order. Do you have test mules you would be ready to hook to rusefi boards? Wideband to help with base map?
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by Abricos » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:49 am

960 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:45 am
Hi!

I am very interested in a Vw/Audi Plug and play Standalone.

I have the schematics, component lists, layout etc for all ME7 and 7.5 ECU's.

If this would be helpful, just contact me to get all of them.

Attached the schematics for ME 7.5.
where did you take it ??? in the museum!!!

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:42 am

russian wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:27 am
960 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:45 am
I am very interested in a Vw/Audi Plug and play Standalone
Hey there! OEM Ecu internals are helpful but what is needed much more is time, skills and resources - probably in that order. Do you have test mules you would be ready to hook to rusefi boards? Wideband to help with base map?
Hi!

Yes, I have cars that can be used for testing. I also have both Wideband and Dyno.
Been working with Chiptuning and car-electronics the last 20 years.

I have some C# experience, but it's very rusty!

I am most familiar with Autronic and Link/Vipec as standalone.

I have just found rusEFI by search, and find this very interesting.
I will definately learn more about it!

There is a large community modifying Vw/Audi's in Norway (Mostly 1.8T), and a reasonable standalone would be great.
Last edited by 960 on Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:08 am

960 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:42 am
I have just found rusEFI by search, and find this very interesting.
I will definitely learn more about it!
We have build a lot and documented a little, Biggest question is which niche can rusEfi fill and what void exists on the market. For which applications do you think rusEfi could be useful and why?
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:38 am

russian wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:08 am
960 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:42 am
I have just found rusEFI by search, and find this very interesting.
I will definitely learn more about it!
We have build a lot and documented a little, Biggest question is which niche can rusEfi fill and what void exists on the market. For which applications do you think rusEfi could be useful and why?

From my experience, VW/Audi's are the most commonly modifyed streetcars.
It,s also a lot of parts like turbo kits, manifolds etc. at the market.

Other car-brands are usually just remapped(At least here).

The two only standalones (MaxxEcu and Link) for these cars are wery expensive.

http://www.maxxecu.com/products/pluginecu/audi_me75

https://www.linkecu.com/products/plugin-ecus/audi/



For trackcars, that dont need all can functions etc. there is a lot of options already.

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:19 am

For the cars mentioned i the topic, the most will be the same.

The 2.0T from 2005 onwards uses Bosch MED9.1

The 1.8T Uses ME7.5 till 2007
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:02 am

kb1gtt wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:15 am
While all this talk has been going on about direct injection, my daily driver(s) have VW 2.0T FSI engines. I recently got a second one, when I had some head drama's with my original engine. In the near future I'll have a fully functional extra car with a 2.0T FSI engine. So I guess it makes sense for me to start considering experimenting with it.

These are the two candidates I have.
2006 Audi A4 2.0T Quattro 230kmi. Newly manufactured head being installed when I write this. I'll have the old head as a spare.
2006 Audi A3 2.0T DSG FWD 210kmi. During the summer months, will be a 3rd vehicle for us, wife will drive it in the winter. So I shouldn't kill it, but I can experiment with it during the summer.

So I should see if I can find the connector for this engine harness, such that I can see if I can control this engine and it's various bits and pieces.
If you need 154 pin connector connector #284617-1 for this:

https://no.rs-online.com/web/p/automoti ... s/7313209/

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:33 am

How plug and play are you thinking? A short term option is to use a break out board. Also do you have PCB skills? If so can you solder, can you use KICAD, what skills do you have? See this example break out connector.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1303
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:42 pm

I solder pcb components daily.

I use a hot air station with IR preheater.

Also have a wery good microscope for it, so the soldering is no problem.

I havent used Kicad, but I think a breakout-board/connector is not a issue.

I found RS has actually has the right connector for your ECU, I will try to find it for ME7.5 also.

The K-Line and can signal stream is important, but they are specified in the functionsrahmen.

Vag also has a Crash-signal wire

It has E-Throttle

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:47 pm


That is actually the right one for ME7 :-)

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:56 pm

Good news is that we have the whole list of connectors we've experienced one way or another at https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... connectors - I really need to add more links to that page so that people can find this page easier.

That list actually points as at viewtopic.php?f=4&t=582 - looks like someone has even developed the PCB board but no one has ever ordered it? Jared did you develop viewtopic.php?f=4&t=582 or someone else do you remember? I can get that 154 at a yard for a paper test and we should probably populate. Does PCB has logo and version number? Any pinout?

Also I am not sure if @ is planning any actual car poking in 2018 or 2019, so for things to move forward we would need @ or someone else to move them forward.

@ we have e-cable. Is direct injection a requirement for you? So far we did not have anyone trying direct injection in real life but we have some ideas for research - probably external OEM boxes for injector control as an intermediate step.
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:58 pm

960 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:47 pm
That is actually the right one for ME7 :-)
121 pin we've actually populated and I have it for sale at https://www.tindie.com/products/russian ... -bare-pcb/ or you can make your own since gerbers are public. You can end up ordering both 121 and 154 if you would be placing an order using the publicly available gerbers or other kicad files.
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by 960 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:01 pm

I can try to get the 121 pin (ME7.5) version up and running first.

I dont need direct injection for that.

Do you have a list/package of all components needed to make everything work?

Including E-throttle, can and vvt.

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by russian » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:40 pm

1. You need rusEfi board. A wide array of ways to get one but shortest route is https://www.tindie.com/products/russian ... ll-bundle/ - thi would include CAN on board and VVT support.

2. You can use https://www.tindie.com/products/russian ... -bare-pcb/ to wire things

3. for electronic throttle body go with eBay "Mini VNH2SP30 Stepper Motor Driver Monster Moto Shield module For Arduino" for about $4

4. [probably not worth it] https://www.tindie.com/products/russian ... akout-pcb/

5. [sorry] I used to have a source for new 121 connector clones but got lazy and do not have any at the moment - you would need to get a used connector from a spare ECU

(I will edit this post if needed later)
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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by NormanAlphaspeed » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:01 am

I made a PnP Speeduino for an Audi A4 1.8T, I can help with fan control (the Audi used one, idk if other VAG did), CANBUS messages (I am only missing A/C confirmation message), and well VVT is two-stage as far as I know, on and off. If I can help let me know!

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Re: 2.0T VW FSI potential test mules.

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:47 am

russian wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:56 pm
Jared did you develop viewtopic.php?f=4&t=582 or someone else do you remember?
I do not recognize it. How did I not know about this? I see 2004 and 2006 Audi. I have those. Two are the 2.0T direct injection, the 2004 is a 3.0 V6. I guess I should inquire if anyone knows if it would fit my cars. I'll make that inquiry in that thread.
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