[rusEfi] Honda B20 CRV #43

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Honda B20 CRV #43

Post by junk3r » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:43 pm

The plan is to install a Frankenso board into my Honda CRV:
It has the B20 engine, with manual transmisison. Not really any performance goals, just would like to test out this platform for use on future projects.

First step was buy a 0.5 board kit. I've got the kit in hand and everything looks great. The soldering is a slow process for me, but so far so good.

I found it very helpful to print out a large version of the silkscreen/pad layer to use as a reference when adding components. I've attached my "printer friendly" versions.

I'm getting started on the wiring as well:
I will get a Honda OBD2B to OBD1 harness adapter. This should work well to re-configure into a plug and play adapter.
It looks like the Honda 1/24 trigger is supported. I beleive these signals are CYP/CKP on the distributor. Once the board is done i will tap these signal while on the stock controller to confirm.
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Silkscreen_btm_andcopper_edit.png
Silkscreen_btm_andcopper_edit.png (256.29 KiB) Viewed 2495 times
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Silkscreen_top_andcopper_edit.png (273.6 KiB) Viewed 2495 times

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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by russian » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:50 pm

I like these "Silkscreen_and_copper" images, how did you make those? Tempted to make them part of the official documentation :)
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:17 pm

I found a website ("easy eda" or something like that") that lets you upload and view the gerber files, then i just turned on the the layers i wanted and saved the image. Then I used paint to make them a little more printer friendly (invert colors and convert to black/white).

Printed onto 8.5x11 paper, it was ~2x the size of the actual board and easier to read the component numbers.

You may be able to get a better resolution on the silk screen layer by exporting them from the PCB software instead of using the browser based viewer.

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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:14 pm

I think in KICAD you can also print, but only include the silk screen and board outline layers. The choose black and white instead of colored, and increase the scale instead of doing a 1:1. It's probably worth a try to see if that works out or not. I'll probably forget to try it by the time I get home.
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by ZHoob2004 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:41 pm

Good luck with the project. What you're doing with the jumper harness is basically the same thing I did with mine (except I was coming from obd0). Documentation is a little sparse, but the Accord and Prelude on the wiki will have most of the wiring info you need. Also watch out, I seem to recall one of the Honda OBD1 pinout diagrams online is wrong, though I can't remember which one :D

Edit: Found it - On the OBD1 middle connector (B) pins 1 is sometimes labeled as ignition GND, but it is actually ignition 12V. You should double check this with a multimeter before trusting me, but I'm pretty sure that's the correction that needs to be made (otherwise you'll blow your ecu fuse as soon as you turn the key)

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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:26 am

Figured I'd hop on for an update:

I got a lot of the soldering done, it is starting to look like an ECU. Now that the majority of the parts are installed, i am having trouble narrowing down on what does and does not need to be populated. Is there a good reference for what does or does not need to be populated in a fairly standard setup?

If you guys can set me up with a good reference of what gets populate, I would be happy to go through the BOM and comment on what doesn't need to be populated and what is part of the STM board. I am thinking either a picture of a complete board both sides, or if there is some way to view a complete board in kicad?

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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by russian » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:36 am

https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... e_pictures points us at https://rusefi.com/images/Frankenso/ which I hope would be helpful.

Would you like to share some pictures of your current status? Does 5v power supply work? Do you have your connector figured out? Do you have your trigger signal inputs functional?
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:50 am

Generally the page of the schematic is what is required for that feature. For example, if you don't want the CAN stuff, then don't populate page 4. We don't know what you do and don't want, so it's hard for us to know what you do and don't need populated. As well there are commonly several options for each sub circuit. On the fuel injectors you can install a fly-back diode, or use the over voltage decay of the MOSFET for the inductive clamping. We generally do not populate the fly-back diodes as the over voltage clamping of the MOSFET is better for fuel injector accuracy. However it's common that for alternator control you want it to be more slugish, so you would commonly install the fly back diode if you happen to be using an output for alternator control. It's very difficult for us to know what you would or would not want installed, as it depends on the rest of the circuit that you attach to it.

On Frankenso R0.5.3, I added a field to the components called PageName which allows us to easily identify in the BOM which parts are on that page. I did this as it was hard for @to identify which parts the assembler should not populate for the STM32 stuff. Perhaps you could do similar a copy of your BOM, then export the BOM and that might help with keeping track of what you think should and should not be populated.
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:41 pm

Thank you for the direction guys. I basically want to populate everything, all inputs, outputs, knock sensing, CAN, etc.

I'll go through the schematics and make sure i have the components for each installed.

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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Sun Apr 29, 2018 12:00 am

Finally finished assembling the board. The power supply works and i'm getting ~4.89V.

At first i could not install W23 as the other side was connected to ground. I found that i accidentally soldered two pins on the VR chip together causing this.

Once that was fixed up i installed W23 and JP01 to boot up the STM board and the LCD screen.

Pics attached. Pretty sure the LCD should display something as I've flashed the firmware to the STM board and run the simulator/connected with Tuner studio.

I also noticed that the 4 LED's i populated for my injector channels are lit dimly, so i'm sure there is probably something wrong there as well.

Pics attached
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by russian » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:49 am

Is lcd removable? Can you remove lcd and discovery and post images of both sides of the board?

There is that lcd contracy circuit
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:39 am

I’ve added pictures of both sides. I’m not able to get rusefi console to connect when the discovery board is plugged into the Frankenso board.

Do all the jumpers on the discovery board stay when it gets plugged on to the frankenso board?

I tried to adjust the contrast pot (RV101) but i’m Not getting anything on the screen.

Looking at other pictures of frankenso boards I may be missing W101 and JP06 yet.
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92E25230-FD9D-47E1-A1E9-881C65BB9804.jpeg
92E25230-FD9D-47E1-A1E9-881C65BB9804.jpeg (4.26 MiB) Viewed 2261 times
F5D7262B-58BF-4516-95EA-BF88A82878D1.jpeg
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by russian » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:47 am

No connect while on frankenso sounds like a bigger problem. Does blue status led blink on frankenso same as without?

Please updaye to latest discovey firmware version using st utility. I mean green board own firmware not anything rusefi. There is a topic about doscovery overcurrent protection known issue with the firmware boards come with
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:23 am

Wasn’t getting a blue light with the green board installed on frankenso.

I’ve updated the green board firmware. Now I get the flashing blue light when installed on frankenso.

Still cannot connect to the console. It detects the board on COM3, I hit connect and it loads the console but is not able to connect to the board on COM3.

It’s getting closer, Thank you for the help so far!

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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:03 pm

So the LCD issue was that R99 was R99 was missing.

I grabbed a different micro USB cable and now I can communicate with the console or tuner studio.

I was able to configure my injector and ignition channels in tunerstudio and then run the test on them with console. All the correct LED’s are flashing and things are looking good.

Time to start building the patch harness. My next goal is to hook up to the Cam and Crank VR and crank the starter to verify trigger. I also need to sort out configuration for the ignition signal wire.
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79F14E74-6778-48F7-ADE2-D52AD57AA033.jpeg
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by russian » Mon Apr 30, 2018 5:40 am

This is some solid progress, I am glad we have the LCD and injectors outputs - now we really need crank signal :)
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Sat May 19, 2018 11:38 pm

I finished up my harness, and finally got some cranking data!

It looks like i have picked up the 4 pulse and 24 pulse signals, sniffer attached
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Sun May 20, 2018 1:11 am

So i swapped the 4 pulse distributor signal out for the 1 pulse and now everything looks worse. Sniffer attached.

I put the settings to do the 24 pulse only, and that one still looked good. So i'm not sure why my 1 pulse cam signal is having troubles.

Time to double check the wiring...
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Sun May 20, 2018 4:10 pm

I think i'm getting close to having the 1 pulse working. I read in some of the other Honda threads that there are possibly issues with long VR pulses.

Here is the sniffer with a 2.7k across the CAM terminals, seems to have eliminated some noise:
with_2.7k on cam.png
with_2.7k on cam.png (34.45 KiB) Viewed 2121 times
And here is 2.7k across, with addition of a 0R to ground on CAM VR negative, it doesn't seem to offer any more reduction in the noise.
with 2.7k and gnd.png
with 2.7k and gnd.png (35.38 KiB) Viewed 2121 times
As of now my next steps are to remove the 0r to ground, and then try flipping the VR +/- on the CAM signal and see what that does....

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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Sun May 20, 2018 4:28 pm

So with CAM signal flipped, everything is looking pretty good. This still has the 2.7k across the CAM terminals, but no more pull to GND:
2.7k and CAM flip.png
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by russian » Sun May 20, 2018 4:37 pm

So, reliable cranking RPM? :)
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Sun May 20, 2018 5:04 pm

Looks like it! ~250 rpm but I believe that because the starter sounds pretty weak. I went to the Honda 1 + 24 decoder instead of the custom with VVT, and now it picks up the front edge of the 1 pulse reliably as TDC.

I’m working on spark now, I get spark on cyl 1 but it seems to be occurring every 180. Need to take a look through the spark settings

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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by russian » Sun May 20, 2018 5:37 pm

250 is high for weak starter, maybe it showing twice the RPM due to settings being not right somewhere? 4 stroke without cam since you are using VVT?
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Sun May 20, 2018 7:20 pm

the 250 rpm was without plugs in, maybe the starter isn't weak. I get about 190 rpm with the plugs installed.

I believe i have the spark configured correctly now as single coil, not wasted. I took out all the plugs and laid them on the valve cover with the wires connected, all 4 would spark, and it appear to follow the firing order.

I think the next step will be to verfiy timing with a timing light, and get the offset figured out.

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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Wed May 30, 2018 4:40 pm

It Runs!

I got it to start and idle today while on my lunch break at work. I need to get a video of it to post.

I ended up with a 95 degree TDC offset value. I think with the distributor it's possible for me to be off by +/- 180 engine degrees off of Cyl 1 TDC when using a timing light. I think i'm going to try the timing light on the injector wire to see if i can confirm that the injection is happening in the right spot.

The narrow band O2 does not appear to respond, i may look into this a bit yet just to see how far i can go until i get a wideband O2 in there.

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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by russian » Thu May 31, 2018 3:59 am

Please please post a video!

Congrats :)
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by russian » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:24 pm

C'mon, we need vids or never happened :)
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Re: Honda B20 CRV

Post by junk3r » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:10 am

Alright, I went and got a quick video:



The video is very dark, but i have to prove it's working! I can't wait to get a wideband O2 in this and start getting it tuned up.

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Re: Honda B20 CRV #43

Post by russian » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:16 pm

Dark does not matter as long as it starts! Welcome to the club :)
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Re: Honda B20 CRV #43

Post by junk3r » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:18 am

I’ve made a couple trips now and it runs great when warmed up. The running and driving tune is pretty close.

I’m having troubles with cold startups, I see no rpm in console or tunerstudio when cranking cold, if I pre warm the engine it works fine......

I will post the error log from console in a bit.

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