BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

What engine are you torturing? Is it inside some car?
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BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:54 am

I created a topic about starting my own project. In plans to remove from the car three ECU and replace one. At the moment I have Bosch 413, MAF EMULATOR 3 and gas controller Stag Q Max. I prepared for the project a little.There is an oscilloscope to which there is an adapter for ignition systems, will allow to measure high-voltage signals, and therefore completely repeat in RusEfi the pulse shape of the native ECU. Logical Analyzer Saleh Logic.
In my arsenal, the knowledge of sports and civil motors accumulated over 10 years of experience, which will avoid problems with the software and hardware part of my project. At registration the question was asked: do I have experience in soldering electronic components, the answer is simple, I have and quite good. Not bad understand for the amateur in the circuits and have experience in repairing complex devices. To work with the motherboards there are all the conditions and tools - a soldering station, heating of boards and other accessories, without which a qualitative repair of electronics would be impossible.My knowledge of English is so bad that it is very difficult to read a forum with an interpreter, I would be glad to communicate with anyone or be one of those who communicate in Russian. When working with firmwares and programs, the question in English did not arise - the necessary terms and phrases for working in my vocabulary are sufficient to work and understand what, where, what it is about. I try to comprehend the whole amount of information about RusEfi, but for me it is difficult so far. On the hardware, I have several boards. There is a Discovery 407VGT6 and one more board 144 pins 407ZET6. At the moment I want to take as a basis Frankenso in Kitkad to modify for my connector ECU 88 pins as in projects that are already on the M52 on this forum. That block does not suit me for a number of reasons, for its repetition, the sensor of the crankshaft on Siemens stands the sensor of the hall, I have the same inductive sensor. In addition, the Frankenso board I like the approach to design. I will just add it. All the details will be located on one board, integrating the chip stm32 directly on the board. I'll start the car at first on a full analog of Francenzo, as soon as I get the stability I'll start designing an integrated board for the gasoline and gas controller.
And yes ... The motor is not standard for me, before installing it in the car, I completely touched it, changed the volume, which is now 2375cm3, the compression ratio is about 11.7: 1. At the moment, I can not say the actual value of gasoline consumption, I do not go with gasoline. The LPG consumption along the route is about 8l / 100km. With all the changes, the possibility did not change from the factory, until it was possible to measure, but I had to put a long reducer of the rear axle because of the excess torque, now the rear axle I have the transfer numbers 2.65: 1, BMW owners will understand exactly what the speech is about )))
Thanks to everyone who read this to the end)))

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:05 am

Welcome to the forum. Have you found the wiki? If not, here is a link which might be of interest.
https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... d#Overview

Interesting project. Let us know if you have any questions.
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:12 pm

Thank you for your interest in my project. Wiki of course found. I installed Ki-Cad yesterday, uploaded the project file and saw Frankenso on my computer, now I'll take a fee from the M52 project and transfer the contacts of the 88-pin connector to my control unit from there. In programming, I'm at an early stage, but I have a very good friend who will help in the initial stages of understanding the process. Thanks to Wiki, I realized that you can emulate the board on a computer and monitor the processes, but I'm far away from that, it's easier for me to assemble the computer and connect real sensors, an oscilloscope and a logic analyzer to understand what's going on. But there is one small but !!! Due to my knowledge of motorsport and software instability, I had to pay attention to your development, because of open source code, which will allow me to add additional algorithms to the controller program, since none of the available ECU can not be stable. For example, in competitions during the day, I have to change the firmware for changing weather conditions, the hot sun, changing the temperature of the coating, wheels, humidity - it's tedious. I already understand at the physical level what and to what extent it affects the parameters of the engine that would understand what functions and cards I lack in software that would make changes in the corrections and rebuild the car once in different weather conditions and do not worry at competitions on the work of the motor. And for these purposes it is naturally better to have a car for experiments, and the plow end play replacement of the ECU will allow it to do on its engine without the discomfort of its civil use. In the wiki and the forum enough information that would study and not deliver inconvenience to members of the forum and those who have already passed through the stage of knowing how RusEfi is arranged. I apologize for my English, without Google translit me no how to not do. If someone from the Russian-speaking could explain that where and why, it would save me time very much. In the meantime, no one responded or humbly studied independently.

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:50 pm

No worries about language. Your English is better than my English.

One area which could be better developed is the LCD screen and joystick entry. This can be really helpful for changing occasional parameters with out a computer or programming cable.
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:07 pm

We will definitely return to the question of choosing a screen. As for the joystick, I can not understand what it's about. If we are talking about moving among the menu of the screen then it is clear, but it is more convenient to use a button keyboard or use an encoder as a variant, rotating is easier to select. I already bought for my E30 a dashboard from the E91 BMW. It is very difficult for me to move from a simple program Sprint Layout to Ki cad.
Initially, I could not determine the inner layers, but I sort of figured it out. Now it's time to figure out the schemes, to re-read why these or those components were chosen. For example, why use separate field effect(MOSFET) transistors to control the injectors if you could use the driver injectors - smaller, hence less energy consumption. I still do not understand everything, the project is big and takes time to master. In parallel with the work and study of this forum, time is still running on the CNC machine, it is also at the assembly stage. It will help to realize in my project all my needs, whether it's 3d printing with plastic or making details of light alloys to my devices.
https://www.waveshare.com/open407v-d-standard.htm - I have this board for the first runs on the table. The crankshaft sensor generator is the same. In general, slowly moving. :D

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:17 pm

CNC? Do you have a CNC?
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by russian » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:22 pm

Which city are you from by the way?
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:33 am

CNC - yes, there will soon be a launch. Dimensions of the machine allow you to fit on his desk the cylinder head from the M50 motor BMW))) In addition, there will be an easy transformation into a 3D printer for plastic. In the spring (soon, as the snow melts) I will build myself a large garage. In which I will place a new CNC machine, on powerful stepper motors, for metal processing. As I indicated in the profile I am from Ukraine, the city of Zaporozhye.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ismV09 ... sp=sharing
With images I did not understand, on this to that it is interesting will look at Google drive

This was the beginning of the design of the machine, now everything is processed, and the X and Y axes. In anticipation of the next parcel from China)))

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:59 am



My first project, which became the champion of Ukraine in 2009. It was the first VAZ, in which Subaru GT 98" was fully installed.


And this is the last project of 2108, which best time showed 10,737 at 402 meters. Engine - VAZ 1640 cm3, gtх3076. The average power figures are 530-540 hp. About this machine, I very well painted on the https://www.drive2.ru/r/lada/543724/

So my intentions are serious, because I want to add additional functions to this brain, for example, to turn the gearbox from mechanics to a robot, and get the shifter control. For better grip, put an additional choke, with an electric drive, which at the start, receiving signals from the ABS sensors will limit the torque. There are a lot of ideas, that's why he decided not to organize everything without CNC.

And so, night gatherings have shown that my Ki Cad studies will be very long, therefore I plan to order several Frankenzo boards in China - so it will be faster than I will try to redrawn the card for my connector. I would have ordered from RusEfi, but delivery is economically not profitable, I'm ready to spend a few extra dollars for experiments. While the fee will be collected on the table I will design a new ebu, which will have more inputs / outputs to implement my plans. Has found gerber files of version R0.5.3.1 - this gerber can be given to the Chinese in production?

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by russian » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:33 am

pobedyst wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:59 am
this gerber can be given to the Chinese in production?
Yes, these are the gerbers you are looking for.

I advice to order at least one kit to have a sample set of parts - we use parts from multiple sources so ordering all the parts you would need is a saga in itself.
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:52 pm

I have already completed the order and paid for it. Most of the components I have available, so I do not see the point of at least now ordering from America. It is unfortunate that you live on the other side of the planet.

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:40 am

Today, watching the tracking found out that the fees are already in Kiev, so soon will be in my hands. Used a forum for installing drivers and programs. I installed the Studio Tuner and successfully filled the firmware into the board, everything worked without questions, all the LEDs flash as it should be once and the blue one flashes constantly, when connected to the Tuner Studio the configuration changes. As the board is assembled, I will delve into the work of the firmware, algorithms and interconnection of the cards.

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:48 pm

Friends, maybe someone will tell you about the choice of ignition drivers, on how many they are universal and under what coils the parameters were calculated. I collect at once 2 control units, one for my car, and the second for a project known in Youtube, but for reasons of confidentiality at the moment I can not voice this project.I can only say that this will be a V6 motor, AT. We'll have to keep everything in secret until the videos are seen by all the subscribers of the channel, for which it was all started. Probably at whom that is oscillograms? Russian, could you spare some time? Who should I turn to for hardware?
P.S. Scanning files, I did not find the marking of transistors D210, D220 and others.

During the assembly process.

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by russian » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:13 pm

D210 D220 sounds like diodes

TC4427 are not ignition drivers, they are relatively weak high-side drivers. Frankenso relies on external igniters or viewtopic.php?f=4&t=286

Wanna start a Russian version of this thread? We have a couple of active Russian-speaking members
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:20 pm

Yes, I already fixed it. In occasion of the Russian-speaking theme - yes it would be not bad, but when I went into the Russian-language branch it seemed to me that everything was sad there and I did not see any sense in starting it there. As I unleash a cm of resistors and capacitors, I will introduce the circuit. After the holidays, most of the details will already be on hand, only some of the components listed in the pdf file will force you to order from abroad. One does not need to take a piece, only now I simultaneously collect 2 ECUs, I can assume that there is still need for these, for a number of reasons. TC4427MJA - TC4427, I think these are more suitable, the widest possible range of operating temperatures (looked at the datasheet). With the ignition, then the question can be closed, I will assemble the modules on those mosfets with which I had experience. Thanks for the help.

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by russian » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:39 am

TC4427MJA is not it DIP not SMD? Be careful since they have TC4427 in a number of different packages.
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:33 am

The below picture is for Frankenstein. However it has several similarities to Frankenso. It might be helpful in understanding a typical electrical layout. I think the big change is that the 5V is now on Frankenso, such that 12V is routed directly to the board instead of using that external 5V box.
Image
http://rusefi.com/wiki/images/b/b1/System_schematic.png

The schematics found here for the Neon J701 might also be helpful in showing the general electrical topology.
https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... schematics

As well Prometheus has similar wiring which might also be of help. See below thread.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1215
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:03 am

Thanks for the warning. When ordering from my suppliers, I always pay special attention to choosing a case, I rarely use DIPs, they are too bulky.Thanks for the warning. When ordering from my suppliers, I always pay special attention to choosing a case, I rarely use DIPs, they are too bulky. How huge is the forum. I read and read almost to the morning, read a lot. I learned some answers to my questions, and now I am more confident that version 0.5.3 is just an introduction to RusEfi, and it will be necessary to develop a new board that will meet my requirements.

kb1gtt, thanks, the night was long, a lot of things became clear. Russian gave a sense of understanding that without additional modules can not do.Such a solution is actual at the development stage, for me this is acceptable, but if I want to run it in someone else's project I need to develop my own card based on Frankenso. You can implement in several ways - the first one to take as a basis the finished project and modify it into something else, or draw from scratch. For example, I very easily draw boards in Sprint Layout, and the kitkad is too crammed for my consciousness, it has layers unnecessary for me that a little annoying. I understand that this is a professional tool, maybe for such a large project as RusEfi is the only way to provide information, then for me this way is too big, you need to master a great tool in a short time. We will overcome.

How huge is the forum. I read and read almost to the morning, read a lot. I learned some answers to my questions, and now I am more confident that version 0.5.3 is just an introduction to RusEfi, and it will be necessary to develop a new board that will meet my requirements.

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:05 pm

Prometheus has integrated ignition drivers. If you desire to spin something different, feel free to inquire about a hardware review. I would be pleased to offer some insight. Also if you design your own board, perhaps I can encourage a modular design. I have wanted to make a scale-able design, such that you can start with small parts for a small engine, then re-use those parts as you get into larger projects. As well it seems everyone has different needs. I see a scale-able design as being helpful.
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:10 pm

I do not quite understand the very concept - Scalable design. For this it is difficult to answer something. If we are talking about modular assembly, then this is acceptable at the development stage, but if it is a matter of installing a speech in a civil car, it can not be about this. To embrace the whole site and to understand myself, with my knowledge of English is very difficult, but I'm moving in this direction. Today I studied the schematic and noticed that the driver injectors do not have feedback, paired transistors 4427 can not simply diagnose their own line. Therefore, this is one of the important points for which I will undertake after successfully setting up several projects, the diagnosis should be. The controller has enough power, memory too, it will be necessary to solve this issue. Up to the banal comparator, which will monitor the voltage changes, based on its readings, you can output an error. I can be wrong, but why not use the existing KAN - bus driver to configure the machine? I still have not figured out what the bluetooth module is for, although I already soldered it for one fee. I also have problems with KitKad, I download the Frankensault project, and some libraries are not found for some reason, although they are in the right place. For example, the same transistor 4427 - downloaded the library, the scheme is crooked, although everything is OK in the PDF file. Russian, thanks for the tip where I asked a question about the transistor, and you corrected me and explained that this is a diode. Yes, I already figured out, a coupled Schottky diode, according to the scheme, performs the protective function of STM32 ports, as I think.
Resistors P403, P406 and so on, I set an accurate, 1% error, although under the scheme I realized that they limit the current in the circuit of the microcontroller's output port, it was possible to set usual, and the range can be +/-.
Thank you guys for helping, I'm very grateful. If I can be useful in configuring the firmware of your machines or choosing the iron for the motor - I will be only too happy to help.

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:01 am

There are several specialty chips. I don't see much benefit with the self diag on the ignition chips. You'll know quickly if ignition fails and the diag feature generally does not help identify a problem before it happens. Those diagnostics features are generally used to signal ABS or traction control such that those systems know that the engine has a lack of power, either that or emissions systems, such that they know fuel is being dumped into the CAT, etc. The work required to get such features to do something useful are quite steep. I would suggest considering ION-sense or common rail direct injection before trying specialty chips with ignition diagnostics. You get many more features for far less efforts if you attempt to obtain those features.

We have considered specialty injector chips as noted below. Beware of the obsolescence of these chips. Long term supply can be a problem when compared to more generic chips which are used in many markets.

Injector chip / breakout board found here.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=577

Also this one
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=398

About Modular design, I suggest a back bone, perhaps CAN or perhaps optical which allows you to put the injector driver board right next to the injectors, spark next to the plugs, etc. Basically the brain could be in person compartment, and the noisy high current devices are really close to the devices which are making the electrical noise.

With the use of an optical bus, perhaps like the below link, you could have common rail injectors, highZ injectors, or LowZ injectors. You would simply change the module which is connected to the injectors. Your brain, Crank decoder, Ignition, etc could all be the same, while you change this one module.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=412
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:09 am

Diagnosis of the injectors, I gave as an example, because I found out after studying the signal from the microcontroller to the injector, and suggested that the other ECU nodes also do not have diagnostics. An obvious example is the use of the stepper motor driver for the idle speed regulator - the same situation. I'm experienced with cars, and on symptoms I can without the scanner determine most of the car's faults, but for some it's a problem.

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:26 pm

Hello. Guys, I haven't gone anywhere, I'm still with you. I have already finished almost all the payment, only a few small diodes are left to solder. There is practically no time for this project; therefore, it takes only a small part of my free time. I can say in advance that the way in which I went is not very profitable financially. Ordering boards, searching for components, delivery costs - all this leads me to the idea of creating a video report on my progress towards the first launch. Now I have to finish the next working draft, this is supra 70, which works on January 5.1. Perhaps after the successful launch of the project RusEfi instead of January 5.1, we will put RusEfi there and set it up. If someone needs the original photo can be attached to the archive. Here, that would not clutter up the resources of the site, I squeezed to a smaller size.
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by russian » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:44 pm

Does the board start and blink? Native stm32 on Frankenso desetves some respect!
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by kb1gtt » Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:35 pm

Very nice. Keep up the good work.

Lack of time, has been a theme with Frankenso. I developed it 10 minutes a day after the family went to sleep.

Wow, green with the STM32 installed on the PCB.

Take note to verify 5V before you connect the W23 jumper. There is a lead on the PCB which is connected to a large GND plane. This needs lots of heat to get a good connection. If that does not connect properly, you will get 12V on your 5V, which is bad news.
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:11 pm

No, it does not start yet. I have not finished the 5 volt strapping yet, and some schottky diodes in the power supply circuits are not sealed. When everything is already decoupled then I will check before launch. I can only add that in the end this project has already cost me about $ 300, due to the fact that many components are sold only in lots. Therefore, for those who do not want to experiment over the project, but simply to collect and use, especially for our countries, it’s cheaper than the guys ’site, it’s impossible to buy a starter kit. I'm still in the subject line, and on YouTube, I watch a friend, your videos, I really like the idea of Volvo coils (or Mazda) with ionization sensors, we discussed a similar method of detecting detonation a few months ago with friends, and in Poland we found a set of 6ti coils for my BMW for only $ 80. An interesting option with an electronic throttle, to implement the limitation of the moment at the start of the car.
P.S. Another important fact is that we have very few details that are very rare, and I am inclined to create my own board, perhaps not even on 407VG, but to take as a basis the controller with a large number of conclusions. I ordered a can-hacker from the Russian guys to understand the operation of the instrument panel from the E90. I bought it for 49 dollars in the USA. Due to difficulties with the delivery of goods from Russia, the projected delivery date is March 1-12.

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by russian » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:07 am

pobedyst wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:11 pm
Therefore, for those who do not want to experiment over the project, but simply to collect and use, especially for our countries, it’s cheaper than the guys ’site, it’s impossible to buy a starter kit.
I am not totally sure what you are trying to say. Were you not aware of the "frankenso parts kit" or are you saying that you should have got the parts kit? On the other hand viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1488 has no issues with the BOM, I guess everyone's situation would be different.
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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by andreika » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:50 am

The total component cost for my Prometheus board was certainly under $100, and most components were available at local stores (imrad,kosmodrom,rcscomponents). Also, I could solder STM32F405 if I wanted, but I decided to use STM32F469, just for fun. Therefore, the only exception is MAX9926, which is available on aliexpress for a reasonable price. And chinese-cloned components CJ125 and BIP373 (also on aliexpress). That's why I think that 100% of Prometheus components are covered by the local stores + aliexpress.

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Re: BMW E30 M50B25 by Pobedyst

Post by pobedyst » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:59 pm

russian wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:07 am
pobedyst wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:11 pm
Therefore, for those who do not want to experiment over the project, but simply to collect and use, especially for our countries, it’s cheaper than the guys ’site, it’s impossible to buy a starter kit.
I am not totally sure what you are trying to say. Were you not aware of the "frankenso parts kit" or are you saying that you should have got the parts kit? On the other hand viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1488 has no issues with the BOM, I guess everyone's situation would be different.
I knew about the set, about its value. I could buy on your site and wait for the parcel. But I went the other way and decided to do everything myself. I ordered 5 cards, I presented one to my friend, I collect one more, there are still two left.
About the total final cost of the project. To order the factory production of a 4-layer board cost me $ 72 with delivery, if I put on a Cm 32 board and did not solder the elements, this is another $ 25-35 (as lucky).
The cosmodrome is a good store, but there are positions that are not in stock or wait from 3 to 6 weeks, it is perfectly obvious that there is no point in waiting, it is cheaper to order in China. About the selection of components - I didn’t want to change anything - I assembled them on the indicated components. I bought a microcontroller from local dealers for $ 12, while one, I immediately bought 5 pieces of 8101, 20 pcs EGT controllers. I ordered whole sets of resistors 0805, 0603, and capacitors in the same ratings with an accuracy of 1%. Schottky diodes are also in large quantities, BAS 70 - 150 pieces on Ali Express, BAT60 also 150 pieces on Ali Express. And so on trifles runs up a good amount. Add here a logic analyzer, a pocket oscilloscope, CAN-Hacker for the dashboard, and that same 300 dollars will be released.

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