2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by AndreyB »

P6 is right next to PA8. Label seems to be on the back. A multimeter with a beep would help confirm.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

russian wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:59 am
P6 is right next to PA8. Label seems to be on the back. A multimeter with a beep would help confirm.
Confirmed! Thank you

Also feel free to use the excel I made to update any of the Wikis. If it is of any use.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

Before I get ahead of myself I just want to confirm grounding.

W39 - injector ground
W40 - output ground/MAP sensor/Wideband ground
W41 - ECU ground
W42 - Sensor ground
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by kb1gtt »

That sounds about right. Basically it's one and to frame or battery they the other gnds are sensors.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

Awesome, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't making some grounds too noisy.

For the clutch switch, since its normally open, I should be using a high side driver?

Going off this

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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by kb1gtt »

Me no follow. You talk switch, but then post about driving circuits.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

kb1gtt wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:04 am
Me no follow. You talk switch, but then post about driving circuits.
Well, how else would I "sense" a normally open switch being closed?
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by kb1gtt »

If you are trying to sense a switch, you would connect it to the input circuit, not the output circuit. See page 3 of the schematic. I don't know your existing wiring, but if you simply have the dry contacts of the switch, you could use input 8, which includes a 5V pull up resistor. Such that when the switch is open, the input is pulled up to 5V, and the brain see's a 1. Then when the switch is closed the input is pulled down to 0V, and the brain see's a 0. Then you configure the software such that a 0 or 1 correlates to either open or closed. You would connect your switch across W42 and W48. If you are using existing wiring, you may need deal with it differently.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

kb1gtt wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:00 am
If you are trying to sense a switch, you would connect it to the input circuit, not the output circuit. See page 3 of the schematic. I don't know your existing wiring, but if you simply have the dry contacts of the switch, you could use input 8, which includes a 5V pull up resistor. Such that when the switch is open, the input is pulled up to 5V, and the brain see's a 1. Then when the switch is closed the input is pulled down to 0V, and the brain see's a 0. Then you configure the software such that a 0 or 1 correlates to either open or closed. You would connect your switch across W42 and W48. If you are using existing wiring, you may need deal with it differently.
Fantastic, thank you.

Wiring up P6. Can this go to any old pin? Basically, can I just solder P6 to a WXX that isn't being used? Or should I snip the post on the 64 pin connector and solder a jumper cable from P6 to it directly?
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by kb1gtt »

The entire point of the WXX jumpers like W1 to W22 is that you can remap the ECU's pin out. For example, IN6 is connected to W50. If you have an existing circuit or if you added a wire to say harness connector 3R, you would install a short jumper wire between the Harness side of W56, and the PCB side of W50. Then IN6 is connected to harness connector 3R. See little yellow jumper wire in the below picture, which is for a specific Miata setup.
Image
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

kb1gtt wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:17 am
The entire point of the WXX jumpers like W1 to W22 is that you can remap the ECU's pin out. For example, IN6 is connected to W50. If you have an existing circuit or if you added a wire to say harness connector 3R, you would install a short jumper wire between the Harness side of W56, and the PCB side of W50. Then IN6 is connected to harness connector 3R. See little yellow jumper wire in the below picture, which is for a specific Miata setup.
Image
I understand now. This is because 3R is not connected to anything past the WXX. Same as W32, W31, W27 and W28?
I don't know what exactly clicked, but the schematic now makes much more sense. Thank you!

I also should be using low-side drivers for my relays. Still learning here! lol
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by kb1gtt »

The big thing is that as you can see in the below, it's designed such that you commonly have 0 ohm jumpers, like those little wires on the left of the picture. However you can reconfigure the pin out with some jumper wires similar to the little yellow wire. Notice the 0 ohm jumpers are not installed on the W##'s for that little jumper wire. The jumper wire takes the signal that would have been on a particular pin, and relocates it to another pin. This is a handy option when you have an existing ECU which runs the engine, and you want to switch between the non adjustable OEM pin out, and the rusEFI pin out. Frankenso's adjustable pin out is handy when you are working with equipment that has a fixed pin out.

If you are NOT going to be switching between the 2 pin outs, then you are likely best off to simply move the wire in the harness and install the 0 ohm jumper for all signals. Basically you can unpin the wire and move it to another spot in the harness connector. This can be a easier to track in your head.
Jumper.PNG
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The flexibility of the Frankenso board is good, as it allows you many options. However it's also bad because it can make it more complicated, and harder to understand.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

kb1gtt wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:04 am
The big thing is that as you can see in the below, it's designed such that you commonly have 0 ohm jumpers, like those little wires on the left of the picture. However you can reconfigure the pin out with some jumper wires similar to the little yellow wire. Notice the 0 ohm jumpers are not installed on the W##'s for that little jumper wire. The jumper wire takes the signal that would have been on a particular pin, and relocates it to another pin. This is a handy option when you have an existing ECU which runs the engine, and you want to switch between the non adjustable OEM pin out, and the rusEFI pin out. Frankenso's adjustable pin out is handy when you are working with equipment that has a fixed pin out.

If you are NOT going to be switching between the 2 pin outs, then you are likely best off to simply move the wire in the harness and install the 0 ohm jumper for all signals. Basically you can unpin the wire and move it to another spot in the harness connector. This can be a easier to track in your head.
Jumper.PNG


The flexibility of the Frankenso board is good, as it allows you many options. However it's also bad because it can make it more complicated, and harder to understand.
Makes a lot of sense now, thank you. I always knew that the WXX pins were configurable, but I just always had trouble tracking them backwards. Basically figuring out what "Stock" pinout was. Thank you.

Like in my case with my VSS (Vehicle speed sensor) signal in, I was confused because I didn't realize that some WXX pins were "empty", as in had no jumpers therefore I didn't know where I could route P6 to, to get my VSS in.

I also had to watch some YouTube videos to really understand what High and Low side drivers were, and their functions. I understand now that a high driver will switch the high side of the load, and the low side driver switches the ground. Sort of like a relay.

I guess my biggest issue is just figuring what the capablities of the different circuits, and therefore their applications. I for some reason thought that a high side driver was for "high current" lol.

From looking at the stock 05 miata wiring diagrams, I see that the hot side of the fan relay coil is always powered, all the ECU does is switch the ground. So, I should therefore be free to use any low side circuit to switch my fan relay. Am I understanding this correctly?

If I wanted to, lets say send a signal to a gauge that needed a digital signal, I could use a high side driver to send the signal to the gauge.

Most of my electronics knowledge comes from EE Circuits classes in college, and some technical training on fighter jets, which hasn't helped me very much here, other than the basics thus far.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by kb1gtt »

Your description of the fan, with one side of the fan connected to the + of the battery, with a switch on the low side, sounds about correct. However the fan usually draws quite allot of amps. The injector drivers can drive 1A with no problem, and could potentially drive more. However your fan may be like 5A+ which I would not expect it to drive. If that's the case then you may need a relay. Such that Frankenso drive a relay, then the relay drives the fan. Same holds true for the fuel pump. That typically draws to many amps and needs a relay.

The use of the hi/lo circuit is likely able to drive the gauge signals. However you need to keep track of the amps. The hi/lo can technically drive around 2A, but the thermal packaging limits how many amps it can drive. If you run at the max designed ambient temperature of 85C, then I expect the hi/lo drivers can only drive 0.125A.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

kb1gtt wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:19 am
Your description of the fan, with one side of the fan connected to the + of the battery, with a switch on the low side, sounds about correct. However the fan usually draws quite allot of amps. The injector drivers can drive 1A with no problem, and could potentially drive more. However your fan may be like 5A+ which I would not expect it to drive. If that's the case then you may need a relay. Such that Frankenso drive a relay, then the relay drives the fan. Same holds true for the fuel pump. That typically draws to many amps and needs a relay.
I would absolutely use the stock relay.

Inputs don't care if its digital or not? So, on an input circuit I can send in 0-5V or Logic level is 5V from your previous post. Different resistor, or jumper somewhere for 12V on an input?

Bluetooth? Whatre the guidelines for that?
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by kb1gtt »

Yup, inputs can handle 5V or 12V digital signals. Basically it's analog between 0V and something like 5.4V. I thought I had this documented some where. From memory, with a 5.4V signal it is then cut in half by R214 and R215 (or equiv) such that the STM32 see's 5.4/2 = 2.7V. There is a bit of warping between 2.7V and 3V, so we aimed to keep away from this region. If the STM32's input is configured as a digital, then I recall any time the signal is above something like 2V it's a 1, and below 0.7V it's a 0. With the cut in half resistors, that means at the harness connector if it's above a 4V it's a 1, and below 1.4V it's a 0. Then in-between those two voltage it's a bit grey about if it's a 0 or a 1. If you exceed 5V on the input, there is a current limiting resistor and surge suppression devices which allow the input to sustain these higher voltages.

I think key guide lines for Bluetooth are
-- A plastic case, as metal blocks RF
-- You got it working with the USB FTDI first, such that you know it works
-- Bluetooth capable laptop or an bluetooth capable andorid phone.
-- Bluetooth on a PC, see this video for how the HC-0# shows up as a com port on a PC. http://android-er.blogspot.com/2015/10/connect-windows-10-to-hc-06-bluetooth.html
-- Android phone uses msDroid https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Software:msDroid
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

kb1gtt wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 10:16 am
I think key guide lines for Bluetooth are
-- A plastic case, as metal blocks RF
-- You got it working with the USB FTDI first, such that you know it works
-- Bluetooth capable laptop or an bluetooth capable andorid phone.
-- Bluetooth on a PC, see this video for how the HC-0# shows up as a com port on a PC. http://android-er.blogspot.com/2015/10/connect-windows-10-to-hc-06-bluetooth.html
-- Android phone uses msDroid https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Software:msDroid
That's some really good info on the inputs, thank you.

So, for the case, just have to wait till the 3D printed case becomes available for purchase. My Anet A8 isn't working at all lately lol.

VSS in on pin PA8, shouldn't need any sort of protection/conditioning with a circuit? MS uses their table switch input for VSS. The VSS signal looks to be conditioned by the dash and then sent to the ECU.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by kb1gtt »

Is your Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) hall, VR, other? Also how is your CAM and CRANK signals obtained? Is CAM and CRANK hall, VR, or other?
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

kb1gtt wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:31 pm
Is your Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS) hall, VR, other? Also how is your CAM and CRANK signals obtained? Is CAM and CRANK hall, VR, or other?
VSS is an AC generator which gets conditioned by the gauge cluster into a 5V signal from what I've read.
Yeah it just a VR sensor. The cluster must do something to do it to make it a 5V square wave I'm assuming. I can't scope it right now unfortunately.

That being said, a 5V signal should be too much for the STM then right? Can I run it into PA7 instead of PA8. PA7 is PWM compatible and has its own input circuit.

CAM and Crank are standard NB2 Miata VR output. I believe it gets condtioned by the sensor into a hall-ish shape.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by kb1gtt »

VR signals would want to go to the MAX9926 chip. Frankenso has 2 of these VR capable channels. More channels can be added with an extra PCB in the proto area. If the signal is already processed into a digital signal (either 5V or 12V) it can be put into the normal inputs, which process that signal before it reaches the STM32's input. This generic input circuit will condition the signal into something that is safe for the STM32.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

Is all the info on the FSIO wiki page current? Trying to build FSIO for AC. Basically the ECU receives a digital input for the AC switch, ECU pulls AC fan and clutch relays to ground.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

So, in TS I burned a baud rate of 150000 because TS has it as an option...Now my RusEFI doesn't seem to connect anywhere. Any ideas?

I re-burned the hex to the STM32. Let's see if that defaulted it.

Worked. So basically changing any of the baud rates in TS bricks the RusEFI.

So to change the TS baud rate. I need to burn the new rate with TS, then power cycle the board, then TS will recognize the new rate.

Any harm from a baud rate of 460800?
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by stefanst »

I think 115200 is the safe max.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

https://docs.google.com/drawings/d/1r4goeiJiMLPtiDx9DByHEvvtKY0L24yskllQM9WLbN0/edit?usp=sharing

Btw when I meant by "default 64 pin connector pinout" I meant something like this.

Displays the pins, their wxx, function and STM pin.

I'll finish this up as the week goes on. Please give me your feedback!

I can see this being a quick visual guide to those building patch harnesses for cars that do not use the 64 pin connector.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

Image
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by AndreyB »

Maybe draw it vertically? Hard to read with head tilted :)
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

russian wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:02 am
Maybe draw it vertically? Hard to read with head tilted :)
Vert 64 Pinout.jpg
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Like this?

Fixed "W440"
64 Pinout.jpg
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by AndreyB »

Yep, looks easier to read to me
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by Simon@FutureProof »

There was sort of a version of that on the wiki page here https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware_Frankenso_board

However yours is much nicer to work with.
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Re: 2005 Nordic Fjord Pine Tree Green MIATA

Post by NBytevenom »

OrchardPerformance wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:06 pm
There was sort of a version of that on the wiki page here https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware_Frankenso_board

However yours is much nicer to work with.
I'm aware of that one. I just wanted something with colors and a more general description. Also it being in the format of Google Drawings allows it to be modified.
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