Proteus v12 club

Your chance to introduce yourself and your vehicle
Simon@FutureProof
contributor
contributor
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:55 pm
Github Username: Orchardperformance
Slack: Orchardperformance

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by Simon@FutureProof »

I'm a little confused as they are all listed?
See below.

1-- which pin does the crankshaft sensor go?
Variable Reluctance #1 negative?
or DIGITAL 1 Digital trigger/switch input ?
You have VR sensor so:
## White 35 Pin 776231-2
| 5 | VR1 pos | vr | Variable Reluctance #1 positive |
## Black 23 Pin 776228-1
| 13 | VR1 neg | vr | Variable Reluctance #1 negative |

2-- camshaft sensor... same??
Is your cam sensor Hall or VR?
if VR:
## White 35 Pin 776231-2
| 4 | VR2 pos | vr | Variable Reluctance #2 positive |
## Black 23 Pin 776228-1
| 12 | VR2 neg | vr | Variable Reluctance #2 negative |


if Hall any of:
## Black 23 Pin 776228-1
| 1 | DIGITAL 2 | din | Digital trigger/switch input |
| 2 | DIGITAL 3 | din | Digital trigger/switch input |
| 3 | DIGITAL 4 | din | Digital trigger/switch input |
| 9 | DIGITAL 5 | y | Digital trigger/switch input |
| 10 | DIGITAL 1 | y | Digital trigger/switch input |
| 11 | DIGITAL 6 | y | Digital trigger/switch input |

3-- coolant temp sensor? pin # ?
## White 35 Pin 776231-2
| 19 | AT1 | at | Analog Thermistor Input #1 |

4-- throttle body.. 2 of them...
## Black 23 Pin 776228-1
| 6 | ETB1- | etb | ETB 1 negative |
| 7 | ETB1+ | etb | ETB 1 positive |
| 8 | ETB2- | etb | ETB 2 negative |
| 15 | ETB2+ | etb | ETB 2 positive |

5-- gas pedal..
## White 35 Pin 776231-2
Any pair of the analogue input pins for the 0-5v signals from the pedal.

6-- MAP or MAF sensor
## White 35 Pin 776231-2
Any of the analogue inputs.

7-- idle air?
Won't be needed if you use the idle by ETB function.
Now keeping MRE in stock in the UK - https://www.FutureProofPerformance.com
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by bill »

OrchardPerformance wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 8:39 am

See below.
thanks for all that! Gives me most of what i need...

i overlooked the ETB-- sorry about that one...

hope to have something running soon!
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by bill »

question on GROUND

which PIN Ground on the board is the big fat wire that goes to the battery terminal?
and which grounds are just for fuel injectors returns, coil signal returns, etc.
some are marked
17 GND y Power GND

and (obviously) the analog sensor grounds are marked
7 GND sgnd Sensor GND

thanks!
mck1117
running engine in first post
running engine in first post
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:05 am
Location: Seattle-ish

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by mck1117 »

bill wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:08 pm
question on GROUND

which PIN Ground on the board is the big fat wire that goes to the battery terminal?
and which grounds are just for fuel injectors returns, coil signal returns, etc.
some are marked
17 GND y Power GND

and (obviously) the analog sensor grounds are marked
7 GND sgnd Sensor GND

thanks!
All the grounds on the board are actually the same - some are marked sensor ground mostly for convenience of keeping those wires near one another (and keeping injector noise out of that part of the board).
All grounds on the board are tied together, so it's best to just run a few individual wires (one from each pin) back to the cylinder head/intake/whatever (all at the same point). I think in my car I used all three ground pins in the black 35p connector, plus one in the 23p. All four wires go to the same ring terminal on a stud welded to the roll cage.
Simon@FutureProof
contributor
contributor
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:55 pm
Github Username: Orchardperformance
Slack: Orchardperformance

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by Simon@FutureProof »

Genuine question, is the list unclear? Could it be improved?
Now keeping MRE in stock in the UK - https://www.FutureProofPerformance.com
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by bill »

The list seems okay. each engine is different. i will make a list of how i wired the v-12 up. and post it. although it will be engine specific. for anybody who wants to attempt the same thing later on.
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by bill »

quick question

what size fuses on the ECB board power supply 12V + line?
and on the main relay?

20A?
thanks
mck1117
running engine in first post
running engine in first post
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:05 am
Location: Seattle-ish

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by mck1117 »

bill wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:09 pm
quick question

what size fuses on the ECB board power supply 12V + line?
and on the main relay?

20A?
thanks
The ECU itself (pin 18) pulls very little current. Less than 0.1 amp typical, so a 1/3/5 amp fuse is fine for that. The main relay pin (pin 23) will pull whatever is consumed by the ETBs (which could be up to around 5 amps peak each, >10 total) and high side outputs (which can source a few amps each, if used).

As for things like injectors/coils, it's probably best to look at whatever the OEM did in the factory wiring harness, and copy that. They did the testing already to figure out what an appropriate size was, so it's easier to just cheat and look at their homework :D
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by bill »

okay.
hardware gurus-- i need some help!
i put an ohmmeter on this hitachi ETB, and the YELLOW and TAN wires were 7 ohms... so probably the motor, correct?
and the RED, WHITE, BLUE , BLACK have no ohm reading... how do i determine which are the sensor position wires are?
+5V ( probably RED) ,
GND ( probably Black)
TPS 1,
TPS 2 wires ??

plus
the hardware wiring says
6 ETB1- etb ETB 1 negative
7 ETB1+ etb ETB 1 positive
is that TPS 1? TPS 2?
https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Hardware_Proteus_Wiring_v03

but the drawing says
TPS 1
TPS 2
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wiki/rusefi/rusefi_documentation/oem_docs/VAG/Bosch_0280750009_pinout.jpg

thanks much!
IMG_20200622_114119574.jpg
IMG_20200622_114119574.jpg (1.86 MiB) Viewed 19969 times
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by bill »

CRANK position sensor...
i think i found the CAM position sensor, ( see picture)

but i can't find the CRANK position sensor
anybody know where they put them on the BMW M73?

and the 3 wires coming out of cam sensor are
+5V, ground, and data?

how would i test to figure those out?

thanks!
IMG_20200622_113520380.jpg
IMG_20200622_113520380.jpg (2.35 MiB) Viewed 19968 times
Abricos
contributor
contributor
Posts: 849
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:32 am
Location: Carteret, NJ 07008

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by Abricos »

bill wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:42 pm
okay.
hardware gurus-- i need some help!
i put an ohmmeter on this hitachi ETB, and the YELLOW and TAN wires were 7 ohms... so probably the motor, correct?
and the RED, WHITE, BLUE , BLACK have no ohm reading... how do i determine which are the sensor position wires are?
+5V ( probably RED) ,
GND ( probably Black)
TPS 1,
TPS 2 wires ??

plus
the hardware wiring says
6 ETB1- etb ETB 1 negative
7 ETB1+ etb ETB 1 positive
is that TPS 1? TPS 2?
https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Hardware_Proteus_Wiring_v03

but the drawing says
TPS 1
TPS 2
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wiki/rusefi/rusefi_documentation/oem_docs/VAG/Bosch_0280750009_pinout.jpg

thanks much!

IMG_20200622_114119574.jpg
You have complete different Etb ...
Plus got my experience color don't mean nothing ...


If it possible open Etb plastic cover and make pictures ...
and we will see where these wires go ...
mck1117
running engine in first post
running engine in first post
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:05 am
Location: Seattle-ish

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by mck1117 »

bill wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:42 pm
i put an ohmmeter on this hitachi ETB, and the YELLOW and TAN wires were 7 ohms... so probably the motor, correct?
Yep, that's probably the motor.
bill wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:42 pm
and the RED, WHITE, BLUE , BLACK have no ohm reading... how do i determine which are the sensor position wires are?
+5V ( probably RED) ,
GND ( probably Black)
TPS 1,
TPS 2 wires ??

plus
the hardware wiring says
6 ETB1- etb ETB 1 negative
7 ETB1+ etb ETB 1 positive
is that TPS 1? TPS 2?
https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Hardware_Proteus_Wiring_v03

but the drawing says
TPS 1
TPS 2
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/wiki/rusefi/rusefi_documentation/oem_docs/VAG/Bosch_0280750009_pinout.jpg
It's best to try and find the factory wiring diagram for the Nissan (?) that these throttles came from. It'll contain info about how they were wired in the factory application.

The ECU pins ETB1-/1+/2-/2+ are for the motors. The TPSs get wired to any analog channel, and 5v/ground get wired accordingly.
bill wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 5:48 pm
CRANK position sensor...
i think i found the CAM position sensor, ( see picture)

but i can't find the CRANK position sensor
anybody know where they put them on the BMW M73?

and the 3 wires coming out of cam sensor are
+5V, ground, and data?
The most effective thing to do is try and find the factory wiring diagram for the BMW this engine came from. It will provide enough hints to be able to wire these sensors.
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 14292
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by AndreyB »

please note that I have documented m73 wiring. please find it on my thread
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
User avatar
kb1gtt
contributor
contributor
Posts: 3758
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:42 am
Location: ME of USA

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by kb1gtt »

Did you measure
Red to black
Red to white
Red to blue
Red to tan
Red to yellow

Try making those measurements with etb opened and closed. As well try with you meter + on red then again with - on red.
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy :)
mck1117
running engine in first post
running engine in first post
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:05 am
Location: Seattle-ish

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by mck1117 »

kb1gtt wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:42 pm
Did you measure
Red to black
Red to white
Red to blue
Red to tan
Red to yellow

Try making those measurements with etb opened and closed. As well try with you meter + on red then again with - on red.
It's just about guaranteed that it's a hall effect angle sensor. Resistance won't work, it's a voltage output.
User avatar
kb1gtt
contributor
contributor
Posts: 3758
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:42 am
Location: ME of USA

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by kb1gtt »

Part of switching + and - is because you'll likely see a slight conduction in one direction vs the other. AKA I might guess the red and black are the voltage source and the blue and white are the return signals. I suspect that you'll measure a slight reading on red and back with one particular polarity and you'll read open circuit in the other polarity. I suspect with the meter he'll start charging a small cap and see numbers that keep changing, or he'll discover some leakage current which produces some claimed ohms. If we see slight conduction, we can switch to the diode tester setting and see if we can power it with the meter a bit more. The diode setting might allow him to even read an analog voltage, or analog current.

If we expect an analog signal, are we expecting it to be current loop or voltage? To me it seems like automotive likes voltage, while industrial stuff likes current loops.
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy :)
mck1117
running engine in first post
running engine in first post
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:05 am
Location: Seattle-ish

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by mck1117 »

kb1gtt wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:08 pm
Part of switching + and - is because you'll likely see a slight conduction in one direction vs the other. AKA I might guess the red and black are the voltage source and the blue and white are the return signals. I suspect that you'll measure a slight reading on red and back with one particular polarity and you'll read open circuit in the other polarity. I suspect with the meter he'll start charging a small cap and see numbers that keep changing, or he'll discover some leakage current which produces some claimed ohms. If we see slight conduction, we can switch to the diode tester setting and see if we can power it with the meter a bit more. The diode setting might allow him to even read an analog voltage, or analog current.

If we expect an analog signal, are we expecting it to be current loop or voltage? To me it seems like automotive likes voltage, while industrial stuff likes current loops.
It's voltage, so that it's compatible with the same input on the ECU as a potentiometer would be. The sensor is actually a hall effect array, microcontroller, and DAC that outputs the position as a voltage.
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by bill »

UPDATE
the Crank position sensor was on the tranny. which is still in the junkyard. so i have to make a bracket and put on some CPS i get from the junkyard. FYI.
it reads off the flywheel. see slots, and gap to the left top of flywheel. 60-2 bosch standard setup.
PS- who puts NINE crank bolts on a flywheel?
IMG_20200622_113657911.jpg
IMG_20200622_113657911.jpg (1.68 MiB) Viewed 19944 times
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by bill »

kb1gtt wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:08 pm
Part of switching + and - is because you'll likely see a slight conduction in one direction vs the other.
I did get a reading for a second, then infinite .
i figured its one of those circuits that has infinite resistance, but capacitance or such.
User avatar
kb1gtt
contributor
contributor
Posts: 3758
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:42 am
Location: ME of USA

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by kb1gtt »

That is likely a small cap charging up. Do you get that on all the wires, or just certain ones?
Welcome to the friendlier side of internet crazy :)
Abricos
contributor
contributor
Posts: 849
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:32 am
Location: Carteret, NJ 07008

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by Abricos »

maybe it help ...
throttle volts.pdf
(409.98 KiB) Downloaded 378 times
throttle valve opening angle.pdf
(291.78 KiB) Downloaded 330 times
2003 altima etb.pdf
(881.43 KiB) Downloaded 389 times
2003 altima etb motor.pdf
(946.38 KiB) Downloaded 343 times
mck1117
running engine in first post
running engine in first post
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:05 am
Location: Seattle-ish

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by mck1117 »

Wire colors match. That's probably the correct pinout.
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by bill »

Abricos wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:02 am
maybe it help ...
throttle volts.pdf
throttle valve opening angle.pdf
2003 altima etb.pdf
2003 altima etb motor.pdf
you ROCK!!
your Google-Fu is impeccable
much better than mine...
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by bill »

so the wire marked
7 ETB1+ etb ETB 1 positive
goes to the wire on the ETB that OPENS the flap when V+ is put on the motor, right?
mck1117
running engine in first post
running engine in first post
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:05 am
Location: Seattle-ish

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by mck1117 »

bill wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:38 pm
so the wire marked
7 ETB1+ etb ETB 1 positive
goes to the wire on the ETB that OPENS the flap when V+ is put on the motor, right?
Exactly! When battery + is connected to ETB+, the throttle should open.
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by bill »

its not even worth driving to the junkyard for this CPS...
just buy it new
https://www.amazon.com/Crankshaft-1389399-5-3547847-8-1336132-4-TAMKKEN/dp/B07TGG2C3R
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by bill »

FYI
i am using the "Yukon " GM coils
and here are the wiring diagrams for them
Coils 1357.gif
Coils 1357.gif (57.52 KiB) Viewed 19855 times
Coils 2468.gif
Coils 2468.gif (126.86 KiB) Viewed 19855 times
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 14292
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by AndreyB »

Bill, have you figured out your transmission plan?

have you ordered https://racehead.com.au/product/bmw-lightweight-performance-flywheel-m60-v8/ BMW LIGHTWEIGHT PERFORMANCE FLYWHEEL M60 V8 CHROME-MOLLY STEEL Hybrid product for use with m30/s38/m88 clutch ?
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
bill
Posts: 219
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:44 pm
Location: DC usa

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by bill »

i have not ordered it yet-- its $275 plus $60 shipping from overseas--

i want to get the transmission first, to make sure i have the right match-- and also figure out the CHASSIS its going in...

Where is your v12 going? I hear rumors of a Checker Marathon Cab install...
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 14292
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: Proteus v12 club

Post by AndreyB »

My v12 is probably not going anywhere in 2020. One of the plans was to have it on a trailer as a rusEFI bait for local car meetups but something has cancelled all local car meetups :(
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Post Reply