[rusEfi] 1995 Dodge Neon

[AndreyB]

Here you are

I've added 2nd trigger signal shape, hopefully with that timing would be much more precise. You would need to update firmware.

Let's see

[AndreyB]

If I'm reading it right it looks like 10ms of fuel x4 per cycle and 15 degrees spark lead at 200RPM

Yep you are reading it right. According to dodge_neon.c it would switch from IM_SIMULTANEOUS to IM_SEQUENTIAL at 550rpm. Fuel would also switch from x4 10ms to x1 3ms.

[Vanquizor]

we are WAY advanced but the timing is stable. I thinks its firing 15 advance but in reality it is more like 65 advanced. Not sure if I should be correcting for this in with global trigger offset or ignition offset... I imagine either would work for current purposes.

[AndreyB]

global would work better it would move both cranking and running timing

[Vanquizor]

looks like I spoke too soon- I can get the timing close using a global offset of 430 and swapping the coils (not sure why but using a value of 610 with the original config did not work out) fly in the ointment is that the ignition is not stable as I originally thought- just the second event was so far away it wasn't within the strobe of my timing light till I got things closer to dialed in. Again by eyeball the second ignition point is 60-70 degrees from the first.

[AndreyB]

Can you restart the console (so that it would write a new log) and post some fresh log?

As an option we can temporarily switch to individual coil mode so that the #1 and #3 are not mixed up.
set_ignition_mode 1

[Vanquizor]

I don't think its worth chasing which coil is which till the timing is stable- I could have easily mixed them up pulling the wire from the coil to frank too.

[AndreyB]

No I am saying with individual mode we would only have one spark per revolution, not two. Just an idea.

[Vanquizor]

When you say revolution are you referring to a crank revolution or a cam revolution?

[kb1gtt]

I think he meant a musical revolution Sorry I have some really bad humor and couldn't help myself.

[Vanquizor]

Thanks for the call- here is the first requested log- no change in setup jumper installed pe8-pa8

[Vanquizor]

2nd log- same setup with crank charging angle changed to 35 degrees. This moved the timing events but did not change the spread between them.

[AndreyB]

no change in setup jumper installed pe8-pa8

Nothing unexpected in this log The trigger looks perfect, PA8 input capture confirms that PE8 (spark #1/#4) is going what is was supposed to do.

The summary of the phone call is that we have stable but wrong spark behavior: in addition to 15 BTDC spark which is expected, there is another one at around 75 BTDC. So good news there is some logic in this and it's not just random sparking, but bad news is that this 75 BTDC should not be there.

[AndreyB]

2nd log- same setup with crank charging angle changed to 35 degrees.

The log looks the same as if crankingChargeAngle is the same. Can you please type showconfig to confirm the value has changed?

By the way you would need to enter writeconfig to save the config between reboots.

PS: need to step outside for 2 hours

[Vanquizor]

well... disregard that then.. I'm sure the timing point change was due to me not using writeconfig... I'll try again

[Vanquizor]

lets use this as the 35...

[Vanquizor]

and 10 degrees. I didn't notice the 2nd timing instance at 10 so I will turn on the fuel and try to fire.

[Vanquizor]

So there was stumbling, coughing and a backfire of epic proportions which launched the throttle body clean off the intake... Timing needs work, and I think we are way lean after start. I got it to pickup a couple times playing with the timing but it seemed to starve out immediately.

Other observations- is it possible we have our ignition output inverted or something? Coils and driver heatsink gets REAL hot if I leave the switch on but am not cranking.

[kb1gtt]

Yes inverted is possible, as I have no idea what polarity is required for the J701. Does the coil conduct current when there is not cranking signal? I would think we can verify that there is no current when it's not running, and that should verify if the polarity is correct or not.

[AndreyB]

There are four pin modes. As a matter of fact, it is inverted because i believe thats the way some of ignition modules are controlled. You can test this by manually supplying 5v while spark is in the air. If it sparks when you take it off or if it sparks when you turn voltage on?

[AndreyB]

Jared says you need non-inverted igniter control? That's set_ignition_pin_mode 0 + writeconfig + MCU reset (since that's an electrical change, this requires a reset)

[Vanquizor]

No problem changing the mode- am I also removing the 5V red wire going to the V pad?

[kb1gtt]

With or without the red wire should work fine in your case. Not it's off to the land of zzz's for me.

[Vanquizor]

This is my current config - still conducting while at rest:

2014-04-05 20_32: CommandQueue: Sending [sec!10!showconfig]
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: Dodge Neon
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: configurationVersion=0
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: RPM bin: 800.00000 1213.33337 1626.66674 2040.00000 2453.33349 2866.66674 3280.00000 3693.33349 4106.66699 4520.00000 4933.33349 5346.66699 5760.00000 6173.33349 6586.66699 7000.00000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: Y bin: 1.20000 1.41333 1.62666 1.84000 2.05333 2.26666 2.48000 2.69333 2.90666 3.12000 3.33333 3.54666 3.75999 3.97333 4.18666 4.40000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: CLT: 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: CLT bins: -40.00000 -30.00000 -20.00000 -10.00000 0.00000 10.00000 20.00000 30.00000 40.00000 50.00000 60.00000 70.00000 80.00000 90.00000 100.00000 110.00000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: IAT: 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000 1.00000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: IAT bins: -40.00000 -30.00000 -20.00000 -10.00000 0.00000 10.00000 20.00000 30.00000 40.00000 50.00000 60.00000 70.00000 80.00000 90.00000 100.00000 110.00000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: vBatt: 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000 0.00000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: vBatt bins: 8.00000 9.00000 10.00000 11.00000 12.00000 13.00000 14.00000 15.00000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: rpmHardLimit: 4000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: rpmMultiplier=0.50000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: tpsMin: 0
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: tpsMax: 0
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: timingMode: 0
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: fixedModeTiming: 50
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: crankingChargeAngle=10.00000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: crankingTimingAngle=0.00000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: globalTriggerAngleOffset=410.00000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: idlePinMode: 0
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: malfunctionIndicatorPinMode: 0
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: analogInputDividerCoefficient: 2.00000
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: idleValvePin: 66
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: fuelPumpPin: mode 0 @ PC13
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: injectionPins: mode 0
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: injection 0 @ PB9
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: injection 1 @ PB8
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: injection 2 @ PE3
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: injection 3 @ PE5
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: ignitionPins: mode 1
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: ignition 0 @ PE8
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: ignition 1 @ NONE
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: ignition 2 @ PE10
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: ignition 3 @ PE1
2014-04-05 20_32: EngineState: confirmation_showconfig:10
2014-04-05 20_32: CommandQueue: got valid conf! showconfig

[Vanquizor]

Looks like we got the ignition sorted... also of note is that moving the global trigger by 10 actually moves the timing by 20 crank degrees. All my work to swap coils and change it by 100 or so actually meant a real change of only 20 degrees (+200 -180 net 20)

[Vanquizor]

Not sure what I'm battling at this point... I'm getting a good cough followed by a backfire. Unfortunately I've run down the battery so I'll play again in the morning. I think the plan is fresh plugs to get a good read on the fuel situation (I think we are VERY rich cranking) followed by a timing sweep.

[AndreyB]

set_cranking_fuel_max 10 40
set_cranking_fuel_min 10 -40
that's the default

to lover it say to 8, you would do
set_cranking_fuel_max 8 40
set_cranking_fuel_min 8 -40

or
set_cranking_fuel_max 6 40
set_cranking_fuel_min 6 -40

you get the picture
Then we have set_whole_fuel_map 4

Do you want to lower cranking/running threshold to set_cranking_rpm 400 ?

You've made some great progress today! Really appreciate your time playing with this Thank you.

[AndreyB]

I've received your voicemail, it sounded like something from another planet, but resembled a running engine. Please email me a video file, this has to go on youtube

OMG, did it really happen?

[Vanquizor]

yep it really happened... I grabbed my bosterpack dialed the fuel back and it stumbled to life. I can get it to start but it just plods along then dies probably a little timing and some work on the afterstart fueling will make it run proper. Got a quick command to change the afterstart fuel without affecting the starting fuel?

[AndreyB]

Yep, "set_whole_fuel_map 4" - that's setting 4ms to the whole running fuel map. Or "set_whole_fuel_map 2.1" if that's what you need.

Let's shoot some video - please-please-please, and let's wire up some sensors. If you have a MAF there is channel #1 which is set for my kind of MAF - mine reports result by current (as oppose to voltage which is more common), or we can wire TPS and implement Alpha-N.