VOLVO B20

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hasse.69
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VOLVO B20

Post by hasse.69 »

My goal is to get a non injected pushrod engine working with as few components possible.
The ignition sequense is 1 3 4 2.
1280px-Volvo_B20_M40.jpg
1280px-Volvo_B20_M40.jpg (676.56 KiB) Viewed 26019 times
What i´m thinking is wasted spark ignition.(simple)
Batch fire of two plus two injectors , certainly it´s got some fancy name when doing so.(semi sequential maybe)
My goal is to get the waste fire and injectors squirting with just two sensors at the pulley on the crankshaft.
And three metal pieces.Kind of like this:
Triggerpunkter remskiva.jpg
Triggerpunkter remskiva.jpg (67.19 KiB) Viewed 26019 times
Triggerskiva 2+1.JPG
Triggerskiva 2+1.JPG (86.64 KiB) Viewed 25983 times
CLT , MAP , MAT , TPS
Probably forgotten a bunch and don´t know if its doable but i will give it a shot.
I have ordered the "Adc Amp 12ch rev 0.2"
And the "6 channel driver rev 0.2 copy"
Still no sign of the discovery board.
So now i have some parts to order.

//Hasse
Last edited by hasse.69 on Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VOLVO B20

Post by kb1gtt »

Looks like a good start, is that a hall sensor? If do you know what hall sensor it is? The sensor will determine what pull up resistor you need, if you don't know we can guess with a reasonable amount of accuracy. My primary concern with a hall is how low it will pull. They generally don't pull down to 0V they often only pull down to .3 to .7V. This can become a problem with and can often be adjusted by the selection of the pull up resistor. IAT, CLT and TPS are for enhancement purposes, all you really need is RPM and MAP. CLT is handy for cold start enrichment, TPS is handy for rapid throttle changes, and IAT is also handy for fine tuning the fuel delivery. I'd generally suggest WO2 be tossed in the list as well, it's handy for determining if you are rich or lean. Both rich and lean conditions can have negative effects.
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Re: VOLVO B20

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The red block has a couple of holes, there is little chance it would start...







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Re: VOLVO B20

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That´s not from my engine.
My plan is to make a bracket for two sensors behind the pulley , not on the side like the picture
I have not decided on any specific trigger sensor.
I do have these can we make them work?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LJ12A3-4-Z-BY-Inductive-Proximity-Sensor-Detection-Switch-PNP-DC6-36V-12MM-N4U8-/390748417416?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item5afa6bad88
NPN sensor.JPG
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This is a simple sketch what i was thinking about.
Pulley sensor setup.JPG
Pulley sensor setup.JPG (9.7 KiB) Viewed 26009 times
Yes i´m aware of the o2 and egt to get it sorted but thats not necessary for a KISS system.
Simplest you could go , no bluetooth and no dash.
Instead of a carburetor and a distributor. S(impl)efi :D
Maybe a Arduino Nano could do the job?????? :mrgreen:

//Hasse.
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Re: VOLVO B20

Post by AndreyB »

hasse.69 wrote: I do have these can we make them work?
If that's a VR sensor - we have a VR board for this job
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Re: VOLVO B20

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Beware even with holes in them they are running.
They are all cast iron , virtually indestructable.
Obviously you could kill them , but they are hard to kill.
Bad20.jpg
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:mrgreen:
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Re: VOLVO B20

Post by hasse.69 »

russian wrote:
hasse.69 wrote: I do have these can we make them work?
If that's a VR sensor - we have a VR board for this job
Product Name: Inductive Proximity Switch
DC 3 Wire Type (Black, Brown, Blue)
Inductive Sensor
Output Type: PNP NO (Normal Open)
Diameter of Head: 12mm
Detecting Distance: 4mm
Supply Voltage DC 6-36V
Current Output: 300mA
Response Frequency: 0.5KHz
Detect Object: Iron
Operating Temperature: -25°C to +55°C (Non-freezing Condition)
So with two holes they should work up to 15000 rpm (The engine will not)

They are not VR but they are cheap and i want them to work :lol:
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Re: VOLVO B20

Post by puff »

That's definitely not VR :-)
I bet, it would be rather inaccurate… - you'd have to calculate the crank position based on very rough approximations…
Besides, I'm not sure if you're correct about its resolution and fitness for this very purpose. There's a chance it won't be capable to 'notice' those quite small rotating objects. What's the distance between the sensor and the crank axis?
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Re: VOLVO B20

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No rotating thingies they are called holes , simple i know. :D
If you think about it a distributor doesn´t have more points.
What it does have is a gear with a couple degrees of backlash and you could not alter the curve easily.
Yeah i know maybe it wont work but if it does it´s a 3$ sensor.
Absolutely , definetly worth a try.
I can leave the engine stock with fuggazzi and dizzy.
Mount every sensor i can think about and get a reading
Just to get familiar with everything , see whats happening.
If we can do it why not do it as simple as we can.
S(IMPL)EFI.

//Hasse.
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Re: VOLVO B20

Post by kb1gtt »

Ah an air cooled engine, haven't seen one of those for some time :)

I think we can try that sensor, but I'd suggest a bench setup to confirm before dealing with the engine. Can you make the pulley an chuck it up in a drill or something? Then we can see if we are getting a good signal at a variety of RPM using the console. Using a drill and chuck will allow for quite allot of flexibility in positioning the sensor.
Last edited by kb1gtt on Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VOLVO B20

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I will do a testrig first.
Aircooled???? :D
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Re: VOLVO B20

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Now i got the parts but can´t connect to TS.
I can connect to Java and see the simulated rpm signal.
I´m not sure if my pinout for serial-usb connection is wrong or what else.
I´ve got:
black-ground
red-5v
green-pc11
white-pc10
I´ve tried switching rx and tx but still no play.
STM+INJ BOARD + ANALOG.JPG
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Re: VOLVO B20

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This is a mail i sent to Andre but i feel more people can chip in.

"As of now it´s much to complicated.
I can´t get the board to communicate with my computer.
Which two pin do i need to connect to get rpm from the board.
I think i´ve read about some change resently but i can´t find it.
The how to:s lacks pictures/videos.
The wiki isn´t up to date.
I tried to follow the instructions on the wiki site and now im totally
confused.
I have everything needed , but not beeing able to "talk" to the STM board
whats the point?

I think this is brilliant stuff , Andre´have done an amazing job.
Jared has done and is doing very good job too
But as of now it´s to much uphill to get started.
First thing first.
KISS approach , i miss the little tutorial about wire sniffing it´s gone i cant
find it.
Make a "package" , this is the software needed (all the software in one place)
I´m willing to learn and i have a 50cc scooter 4 stroke to try on.
I have several Volvo engines 4cylinder 1986 to 2316cc carburated , fuelie , n/a
and turbo charged to try on also.
Lack of time is the biggest concern for me.
But if we could get this board talking it would definetly motivate me.
I´m in for as simple setup as possible , anything is better than a carb and
dizzy".
Best regards , Hasse.
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Re: VOLVO B20

Post by puff »

can you see that interface on the computer?
have you updated the firmware?
to check the usb device you can connect to that serial port with terminal and connect the green wire to the white wire - you should see echo (with wires connected you should see what you type, and usually you can't see anything on the screen if these wires are not connected)
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Re: VOLVO B20

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No i can´t see that interface on my computer.
Updated firmware today.
I downloaded Putty and i get some kind of connection.
With com 15 and 9600 baud , not sure what to do now.
I´m waaaaay out of my comfort zone :lol:
If i type m the cursor jumps back on m ????
Please advice.
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Re: VOLVO B20

Post by AndreyB »

First I have to say that you are the first person I know who keeps the discovery upside down. I know that the bottom pins are longer, but the lack of the silkscreen turns everyone to the shorter upside pins.

Anyway. If you want to connect to the TS port with putty, you set the speed to 115200.

Image

Once you've connected, you are expected to see a blank screen. Then you hit 't' button on your keyboard and you are expected to see an 'alive' response.
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Re: VOLVO B20

Post by AndreyB »

PS: what is this black cable - where does it go? I want to see it... Because who knows what you've got on the other end of that black cable!

The pinout seems to be right
By default we use USART3. TX is pin PC10 & RX is PC11
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Re: VOLVO B20

Post by AndreyB »

Here is what you are expected to see
Image

But I am sure that you know that you need Tuner Studio, not Putty, on this port, once we test it.

One day these new pictures would make it to some manual. Not today :(
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Re: VOLVO B20

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"First I have to say that you are the first person I know who keeps the discovery upside down"

Obviously by now you should expect me to do everything quite opposite.

:lol:
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Re: VOLVO B20

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"you set the speed to 115200"
Done.
Click serial.
Done.

"Once you've connected, you are expected to see a blank screen. Then you hit 't' button on your keyboard and you are expected to see an 'alive' response."

Where , what????? now you are two steps ahead of me...
:lol:
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Re: VOLVO B20

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"First I have to say that you are the first person I know who keeps the discovery upside down."
So where are you connecting Frankenstein. ;)
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Re: VOLVO B20

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Please tell me you have clicked 'Open' in PuTTy
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Re: VOLVO B20

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"PS: what is this black cable - where does it go? I want to see it... Because who knows what you've got on the other end of that black cable!"
If you mean the thin one it´s ground on the board.
If you mean the big one its the one going to the USB-TTL connection.
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Re: VOLVO B20

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"Please tell me you have clicked 'Open' in PuTTy"
Yes.
I get to the screen but it´s "frozen" i can´t write anything
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Re: VOLVO B20

Post by AndreyB »

Please try connecting TX and RX the other way around
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Re: VOLVO B20

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This is how it looks in device manager.
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Re: VOLVO B20

Post by AndreyB »

Please take the PD1<>PC6 jumper wire out and hit reset to reboot discovery.

It looks like there is an issue with the firmware - TS is hanging if the signal is simulated and microUSB is NOT connected. So, let's troubleshoot this step by step - first I want you go see 'alive', even without the simulation jumper wire. Once you see 'alive' I would need to fix the bug
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Re: VOLVO B20

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Switched it the other way around, still no go.
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Re: VOLVO B20

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This is what i get.
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Re: VOLVO B20

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Please take the PD1<>PC6 jumper wire out and hit reset to reboot discovery.

It looks like there is an issue with the firmware - TS is hanging if the signal is simulated and microUSB is NOT connected. So, let's troubleshoot this step by step - first I want you go see 'alive', even without the simulation jumper wire. Once you see 'alive' I would need to fix the bug
Did you try that?
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