[rusEfi] Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock #21

What engine are you torturing? Is it inside some car?
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Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock #21

Post by tomiata » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:18 am

Another Miata! Here is my 1990 Miata I mentioned in my intro. All stock except for a cone filter intake I added. I bought it in May and got it fixed up to be my daily driver. I'm anxious to do some tinkering on it after I get some hardware in my hands. Looking forward to trying out a Frankenso board on it when it's available.
Miata1990.jpg
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Last edited by tomiata on Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by russian » Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:37 am

It looks amazing for a 1990, I need to move to TX :)

I've mailed you a Frankenstein, I still need to write some code for the test I want you to run. To configure the firmware you would need to run a couple of commands:
set_engine_type 19
<reboot>
disable_injection
disable_ignition
writeconfig
set_trigger_input_pin 0 PA5
set_trigger_input_pin 1 PC6
set_logic_input_pin 0 none
set_logic_input_pin 1 none
writeconfig
<reboot>
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by tomiata » Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:31 am

Thanks a lot. It had been repainted and some body work done, but I don't know much history on it.
It was missing some important parts like power steering pump and A/C compressor (very important for Texas).
I added those back and fixed oil leaks, and now it's running nicely.

Thanks, Russian, I'll try out the Frankenstein and do some testing on her.

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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by tomiata » Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:21 am

Finally peeking inside to find the object in question.

Here is a photo of the ECU for ulster0 to compare.
_20140827_220348.JPG
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by russian » Sat Aug 30, 2014 3:35 am

Since you said the word "oscilloscope" here is a little FYI:

Image

The top row of the pins is easy to grab if the cover is removed - the bottom row is obviously impossible to grab like that. What is pretty cool is that both trigger wires are on the top row!

2A & 2C are grounds, 2E (3E on some diagrams) and 2G (sometimes 3G) are trigger signals - top row, one of the injector wires is top row and one of the igniter wires is on the accessible row. See http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title= ... Miata_1990 / http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title= ... Miata_1994 (pretty much the same, nicer diagram)
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by tomiata » Sun Aug 31, 2014 4:45 am

Here is the inside of my ECU. It has seen some water damage at some point. There was a lot of rust on the outside brackets, looks like from A/C condensation leaking on to it.
IMG_20140830_220345.jpg
IMG_20140830_220345.jpg (973.91 KiB) Viewed 5487 times
And setup with oscilloscope.
IMG_20140830_231458.jpg
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by russian » Sun Aug 31, 2014 11:50 am

They've moved the ECU behind the passenger seat for later models, probably for same reason. Still, sometimes some manufacturers are still placing some control modules pretty low - see http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n53 ... e3c976.jpg
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by tomiata » Sun May 01, 2016 12:12 am

I'm going to start on this car now after getting the new Frankenso board. I have been working with the old Frankenstein board on my 96 Miata (http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=666) for a while. This board looks great!

I'll update the 1990 Miata wiki page as I go: http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title= ... Miata_1990
The default jumper settings look good so far.

What engine type should I use? With type 41 I get fatal error: PC4 for AFR already by VBAT?
And with type 19, I get garbled characters on the lcd or is that Japanese :D
rusefi-set-type19b.jpg
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by russian » Sun May 01, 2016 12:29 am

Just added some comments into the files:
// Frankenstein board
MIATA_1990 = 19,
and

// Frankenso board
MIATA_NA_1_6 = 41,

set_engine_type 41 actually works for me, try executing it and then rebooting the board maybe? Please note that I have not yet started the engine with set_engine_type 41 - so far it's a datalogging board, so some settings would be missing - it would be between you and me to add the missing stuff like injector pins etc.

2016-04-30 20_22: EngineState: analogInputDividerCoefficient: 2.00
2016-04-30 20_22: EngineState: ADC is not assigned for hip9011
2016-04-30 20_22: EngineState: ADC is not assigned for fuel gauge
2016-04-30 20_22: EngineState: TPS ADC2 slow PA2 adc=0.27/input=0.55v/divider=2.00
2016-04-30 20_22: EngineState: ADC is not assigned for pPS
2016-04-30 20_22: EngineState: CLT ADC12 slow PC2 adc=0.59/input=1.18v/divider=2.00
2016-04-30 20_22: EngineState: IAT ADC11 slow PC1 adc=0.51/input=1.02v/divider=2.00
2016-04-30 20_22: EngineState: AFR ADC13 slow PC3 adc=0.00/input=0.00v/divider=2.00
2016-04-30 20_22: EngineState: fast enabled=Yes
2016-04-30 20_22: EngineState: MAP ADC0 fast PA0 adc=0.35/input=0.70v/divider=2.00
2016-04-30 20_22: EngineState: ADC is not assigned for A/C sw
2016-04-30 20_22: EngineState: ADC is not assigned for HIP9011
2016-04-30 20_22: EngineState: Vbatt ADC14 slow PC4 adc=0.41/input=4.00v/divider=9.75
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by tomiata » Tue May 03, 2016 5:56 pm

I tried again with type 41 and didn't get the error. Not sure what I did.

Did you install a MAP sensor? I got an mpx4250 and planned to put on the board. Any restrictions on the proto area to use or not?

Also, I got a variable TPS. I want to be able to run with stock ecu. Do know if it can be wired with the same pin for stock and rusefi?

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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by russian » Tue May 03, 2016 7:37 pm

No restrictions on the proto area I am aware of, maybe check continuity with +5v or GND on the pins just to be sure :)

Are you planning to keep OEM wiring intact? I am usually just using unused connector positions and wire the signal from there. Same pin would work also - pretty much as long as it does not have a 2.7K pull-down it should work for TPS.
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by kb1gtt » Tue May 03, 2016 7:45 pm

Not really any known restrictions, but keep in mind a couple are 5V, GND, etc. They are marked via silk screen with outline to show which ones are included. The via's should be able to handle more current than the 5V can provide.
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by tomiata » Tue May 10, 2016 4:25 am

I plugged the board into the car and so far, CLT, IAT, and MAF look sane. Still working on hooking up MAP and TPS.

Can you check the wiring updates I made to the Miata 1990 page. I put question marks on the pins I'm not sure about.
http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title= ... Miata_1990

I think the trigger inputs should be PC5 and PA7, but those pins are not available to assign from TunerStudio.

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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by russian » Tue May 10, 2016 12:40 pm

tomiata wrote:I think the trigger inputs should be PC5 and PA7, but those pins are not available to assign from TunerStudio.
Unfortunately not any pin could be used as trigger input, also while making Frankenso more universal we had to make it more complicated for Miatas.

Here's a reroute you would need to make: these jumper wires feed the CAS input signal into the area of the unused middle plug:

Image

And the final result - here the unneeded middle plug pins are moved away and covered in head shrink

Image
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by tomiata » Sun May 15, 2016 11:28 pm

Good to see the driver vertical and the car in one piece!

Here a shot of timing after wiring up as shown in your pictures above.
How does this look to you?
Miata1990timing-May-12-2016.jpg
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by russian » Mon May 16, 2016 12:17 pm

This looks right overall, but just to be sure please confirm timing with a timing gun. I want to double-check that the timing value in the software (ignition timing gauge or in the logs) matches what the timing gun measures - i.e. I want to confirm that TDC position is right.

I need to get to the bottom of this "timing sync" error - does it disappear after running for 60 seconds or is it always there? My current understanding is that cranking signal is not always perfect so the warning is fired up. These warnings should stay on for 10 seconds I believe.
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by tomiata » Sat Jun 04, 2016 6:39 pm

I have made some progress but still seeing some problems.

On igniters, I can see LEDs flash from bench test on both lines. And timing light confirms sparks on the plug wires.
When cranking I see LEDs flashing only on first ignitor channel.

On the bench, running self stimulation shows the same, only first igniter flashing.
Trace of both igniters outputs look like this:
IMG_002.BMP
IMG_002.BMP (38 KiB) Viewed 4455 times
(I've moved up to 21st century tools and got a little Sainsmart digital oscope)

And when when cranking I see:

Warning: sync error: index #12 above total size 12

Any suggestions?
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by russian » Sat Jun 04, 2016 8:24 pm

You have fallen into wasted spark/batched injector usability trap: the coils used are not #1 and #2 as a normal person would expect, but coils #1 and #3 :(

I've just improved the console to make it a bit more obvious - on engine sniffer tab the physical pin would be displayed on the mouse over.
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by tomiata » Sun Jun 05, 2016 2:01 am

Thanks, @russian, I can make sparks on all the plug wires now from bench test, but I am still missing something basic.

When cranking I see both trigger input led's flashing and both igniter output LEDs flashing, but I see nothing on the timing light.
After I stop cranking I see one flash on the timing light, strange?
Console shows RPM about 200 when cranking. But, I see no timing trace on the engine sniffer page, or viewing the log file afterwards.

Looking at the wiring diagram I don't see anything obvious missing.

Any other ideas?
Thanks!
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by russian » Sun Jun 05, 2016 4:26 am

Empty engine sniffer/log viewer is my fault: a couple of days ago I've broken firmware/console compatibility. I have noticed that this morning and since fixed, new console is already available and I've made the compatibility a bit less fragile, hopefully less chance of console broken after firmware changes in the future. This area is not tested automatically thus lower quality :( Anyway, I believe that current console would open your logs from yesterday/today.

If all four spark plugs are sparking on the car in IO test mode, and correct output channels are sparking while cranking, and you do not see anything with a timing light the only way I can explain it is if triggerOffset is so far off that it is nowhere on the gauge and just not visible. My only idea is to try moving triggerOffset by 10-20 degrees at a time? Maybe leave spark plug #2 on the block to confirm that it is sparking to be sure that there is something to look for - I guess that's a reminder that rusEfi currently takes one or two full engine revolution before spark is send out, so you need relatively long cranking to be sure.
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by russian » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:37 pm

@ got it running with a zero trigger offset, looks like the offset which is already build into MIATA_NA trigger is good enough. The only two minor changes I've made to 'set_engine_type 41' are
a) displacement = 1.6 (should not affect starting) and b) injectionMode = IM_BATCH (would probably affect starting to some extent)

Do you have fuel in the tank? (this did happen to be)
What is the deal with OEM VAF which control fuel pump - is it on the car?
Have you tried puffing it on starting fluid?
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by tomiata » Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:56 pm

Yes I have injectors set to IM_BATCH, and plenty of fuel in the tank.

I tried spraying in some starter fluid just now and it almost started.

The stock AFM has a switch to enable the fuel pump. It looks like no additional wiring or signal needed.
The car starts fine on the stock ECU, so AFM should be working.

I hear injectors click when running bench test. I'll try to check that again.

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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by russian » Sun Jun 12, 2016 10:05 pm

one difference with the blue one is that hi has 3 degrees crankijg advance, default config has zero. Do you want to try 0, 3, 6 and 10?
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by Dial0 » Mon Jun 13, 2016 1:41 am

If you are checking to see if you are getting fuel to the cylinders.
You can crank it over some, and then take out a spark plug and check if it is wet and if you can smell fuel.

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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by Thommm » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:22 am

On zero crank advance mine has a hard time starting, with between 3 and 7 it starts fine (ish). I think I'm going to find out how much the stock ecu advances timing and fuel pulse width during cranking, should be the best baseline. Do you have the AFM curve properly configured? Could you post a screenshot of the afm curve? You aren't running map right?

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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by tomiata » Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:00 am

Thanks for the tips. I swapped back to the stock ECU to verify things are still ok, and it started up fine.

I rechecked the injectors with benchtest and can hear them clicking on both channels.
I tried cranking with different values of advance, and there are no puffs at all that I can tell without the help of starter fluid.
And I pulled a plug after cranking a while to check if it was wet as @dial0 suggested.
The plug does not seem wet with fuel, and seems like a fuel delivery problem.

I am using AFM, not using MAP yet. The AFM curve is the default values from the engine config. I have not changed anything there, looks like this:
AFM-default.jpg
AFM-default.jpg (81.48 KiB) Viewed 4285 times
But, I didn't think the curve would affect AFM internal switch that enables the fuel pump, would it? I'll try to research that more.

The output of the AFM is about 3.8 volts with key switch on, and when cranking is about 2.9v. I'm not sure if that is sane or not. Does anyone know?

Thanks!

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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by Dial0 » Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:37 am

For the sake of testing I would confirm the fuel pump is running.

If you can't hear it run when you are cranking I would run a 12v feed directly to it, just to rule that out as an issue.

I had a quick Google and found a write up about replacing the afm with a map sensor. This might be of interest:
Notice how the fuel pump contacts form a normally-closed switch. When there is no airflow through the system and the flapper is fully closed, there's a little rod on the spring mechanism that forces this switch open. When air starts to move through the system and the flapper begins to open, the switch is allowed to close, thus energizing the fuel pump relay. (There's also a wire in the starting circuit that energizes the relay independant of this switch for when you're cranking the engine.)
I wonder if you will need to manually energise the relay while the engine is cranking?
Last edited by Dial0 on Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by russian » Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:54 am

@ on this early miata the fuel pump is controlled by the VAF/MAF. not the ECU! The vane door has a switch - if the door is moved, there is fuel pump.

I am sorry for not asking the question earlier, but on the console log I do not see any injector activity: we have two lines for CAS, we have two lines for coils and a line for MAP window. Nothing for injectors. Looks like at least back when injection was either disabled or the logic was not happy with something and it was not producing any injection pulses.

Image

In the console out folder it is now writing two files - a .csv file and a .msl file, can we have both? And CurrentTune.msq one more time.
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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by Thommm » Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:02 pm

Do you have a MAF or an AFM, so hot wire or vane type? The vane type has an inverse curve, so 0V is full throttle 6000 rpm and around 4.5 is idle, unless I'm switching things.

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Re: Miata NA 1990, 1.6L stock

Post by tomiata » Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:54 am

Yes, using stock AFM ,vane type. I just tried manually pushing in the vane, and I can hear the fuel pump turn on/off. It is not very loud and too quiet to hear when cranking.

But after doing that and trying to crank after the fuel pressure was up, there were a few puff trying to catch on to start. After a few more rounds of cranking there were no more puffs.

Here is a screenshot and injectors are enabled.
engine-sniff-6-14.jpg
engine-sniff-6-14.jpg (393.59 KiB) Viewed 4255 times

I also measured the AFM output on the stock ECU, and sitting with key switch on it reads about .2v.

EDIT: that was wrong, rechecking AFM reading on stock ECU pin is about 4.4v with keyswitch on, not running. There was corrosion on the pin from some water damage causing a bad connection there. Similar value read on Frankenso board on AFM signal pin 2O.

Thanks for the helpful hints!
Attachments
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MAIN_rfi_report_2016-06-14_19_29.csv
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2016-06-14_19_29.msl
(97.97 KiB) Downloaded 363 times
Last edited by tomiata on Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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