[rusEfi] 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

What engine are you torturing? Is it inside some car?
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2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by russian » Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:21 am

2003 2nd gen Dodge Neon
2.0 SOHC SXT

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http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title= ... _Neon_2003

Here's the new test mule!

101K miles & manual. Got an amazing deal because "the car has a few dents, all from being hit with a baseball or softball, and the most noticeable dent over the right rear was from turning to soon and catching the garage pole while parking".

The ECU is not where is should be but whatever.

[video][/video]

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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon

Post by Vanquizor » Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:04 pm

different tone wheel than mine, but shared with the SRT and other 03+ chryslers this diagram may or maynot be offset by 40 degrees but it should be easy to verify with the actual car.

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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon

Post by russian » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:11 am

Wow, google does not know 05087006AA! I will now say "05087006AA" here - and in a couple days google would show only this forum for 05087006AA...

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That's the male side of the ECU connector, photo by @
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon

Post by russian » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:32 pm

TE connectivity tech support is unbelievable, they were able to find the datasheet for these plugs for me - see http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title= ... rs#152_pin
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon

Post by russian » Sat Oct 04, 2014 12:44 am

My connector donor has arrived. So far I am only applying mechanical forces, already pulled two pins while pulling the pieces of the PCB. Will try my favorite grinder but I am afraid to damage the pins even more. Damn silicone.

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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon

Post by abecedarian » Sat Oct 04, 2014 2:34 am

"Goof-off"?
WD-40?
....
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon

Post by puff » Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:35 am


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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon

Post by russian » Sat Oct 04, 2014 3:17 pm

2 hours of VM&P Naphtha bath
tooth brush cleanup
2 hours of fresh VM&P Naphtha bath
tooth brush cleanup & warm soapy water
success

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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon

Post by russian » Mon Oct 13, 2014 11:02 am

@ has created the 38 pin connector footprint and I've started making a board based on that footprint:
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https://svn.code.sf.net/p/rusefi/code/t ... connector/

Couple of cool pictures but the text is in Russian - http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=705
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon

Post by russian » Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:15 am

@ has finished the board and I've just placed an order
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon

Post by russian » Thu Oct 30, 2014 11:12 pm

Working on gathering all the data needed to run the car. I have to stay it was pretty impressive how fast the car has thrown P0508 code once I've decided to start it without idle valve. Damn, I need to look into these smart chips with feedback.

Damn, I really want to work on this 60 hours a week :(
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon

Post by russian » Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:56 pm

Idle Air Contol has only two wires (see schematic in first post of this thread)
I have 1.3 Ohm between "Idle return" wire pin C2:28 and C1:9 "ground" or C1:18 "ground"
and the 2nd wire is "IAC motor".

What does that mean? Is it still low-side controlled? Is it high-side?
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon

Post by kb1gtt » Sat Nov 01, 2014 6:18 pm

1.3 ohms between idle return and GND is probably a low side sense resistors. Such that if you have say 1 amp running through the solenoid, you'll get 1.3 volts across that low side resistor. This would allow the ECU to PID the current flowing in the solenoid. For the initial attempts on this I would suggest

First measure the resistance on the solenoid. How many ohms does it measure.

Then I would suggest measuring the current during idle on the OEM.

Then for starters on frankenso, wire pin 38 IAC motor to 12V, then wire pin 28 IAC return to a low side drive. You can then set the PWM to match a similar average current as the OEM. This will get the basic starting point.
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon

Post by russian » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:26 pm

russian wrote:@ has finished the board and I've just placed an order
Pretty fast this time - 10 days and I have the board which looks pretty sweet - see http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=764
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by russian » Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:10 am

[video][/video]

This is with pre-warm-up as usual :( First thing I want to figure out would be cold start.
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by 3400tZ » Mon Nov 03, 2014 1:28 am

AWESOME! :)

More fuel should be all it need when cold but I assume you've tried that already (possibly times 1.5 the pulse width you had in that video as a starting point) ?

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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by russian » Tue Nov 04, 2014 3:03 am

The idle motor resistance is 10 Ohm precisely, I have to say I am amazed by Chrysler once again - it was really easy to remove the idle valve.

So on a bench @300Hz with a diode I see that 0-30% it's pretty much closed, 30%-70% is where most of the movement is, 70%-100% again change in the duty cycle does not move the piston much.
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by russian » Mon Nov 10, 2014 4:59 pm

FINALLY a pre-warming is not needed! The car was sitting overnight, coolant was at about 50F, it was not perfect but it's SO much better then it used to be! I am pretty excited and I need your feedback on how to make this first start smoother
[video][/video]

That's with Image and Image global default tables, 10 degrees timing advance, 5ms per cylinder per engine cycle base cranking fuel, 12ms per cylinder per engine cycle flat fuel map while running.

What is this when engine hesitates for the first 10 seconds? I guess coolant gets some time to warm up while the ignition chamber gets warmer much faster. How do I make these first 10 seconds of running better? Extra fuel for 10 seconds of running?
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by 3400tZ » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:21 am

That's good progress!

You probably need some after start enrichment but at this point it doesn't really matter as you can just make the VE table richer anyway (We're not quite at fine tuning just yet :lol:). Do you have a wideband O2 sensor on this thing ? I feel like it would help a lot, especially once it's running. Are you able to change the VE table in real time while running ? You could try to lower that pulse width to see if it would run better.

At around 1:10 in the video, is it backfiring in the intake or exhaust ? If it's in the intake, it's most likely too lean, if it's in the exhaust, most likely too rich. That should help to know which direction to take with the cranking pulse width.

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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:25 am

When you cycle the ke to the on position, do you dump a priming pulse long before cranking? Also are you dumping in fuel before you have full sync? The popping noise could be a mild problem, as you might ignite fuel in the exhaust, which would likely causing odd pressures which at low RPM. Is that popping back firing, or exhaust combustion? Backfire is technically out the intake, as that's backwards from normal, while exhaust ignition is more normal. Many people call exhaust ignition a back fire, which isn't really proper. Any how, if it's the intake, your timing might be adjusted to much, and causing igniting before the valve shuts, which would cause the charge that's hanging out in the intake to get spent before it's been loaded for a useful purpose. As well the next couple cycles are likely also sucking in an already spent charge.
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by russian » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:14 pm

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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by russian » Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:32 am

[video][/video]
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by russian » Mon Nov 17, 2014 4:12 am

Looks like the radiator fan does not work, wow :( The relay is fine and power gets all the way to the connector on the fan motor, so it is the motor.

Kind of scary how did the previous owner drive it without the fan. I have no choice but hope for the better - I guess if the head would be warped I would learn this by now. Knock on wood!

Ordered a replacement part, used motor of a turbo Neon :) Same radiator fan on both turbo and N/A manual car.
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by russian » Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:14 pm

@ has started his own board for the Chrysler NGC case, one day we might feel the PCB shape with Frankenso content :)

Image - see https://svn.code.sf.net/p/rusefi/code/t ... e/NGC_pcb/
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by kb1gtt » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:49 am

Very nice. Once this is just about done, feel free to inquire for me to review.
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by russian » Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:52 pm

kb1gtt wrote:Very nice. Once this is just about done, feel free to inquire for me to review.
Jared, do you know if it's possible to somehow convert board outline into .STL or .CAD? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/STL_(file_format)

@ has a 3D printer and I am looking to validate the shape with a plastic PCB.
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by kb1gtt » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:16 am

From here it appears you can export VRML from KICAD, then with blender you can import and export to .stl

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/kic ... pics/11801

I've not done it, but have access to Solidworks and inventory, so I might be able to offer some other tools if required.
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by DaWaN » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:53 am

For validating PCB shapes, footprints and outline I usually just print them on paper (real size).
If you then want check the case I would just use a plate of plastic the thickness of a PCB (which in most cases is 1.55mm or 63 mils I think) and drill manually..

But if you have a 3D printer.. I am jealous :)

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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by russian » Sat Nov 29, 2014 10:20 pm

Finally I have a working radiator fan! As usual that's 5% me and 95% @

We've got pretty nice idle AFR with 2.8ms of fuel and idle_pwm 350 gives @ 900rpm, hopefully I will shoot some driving video tomorrow :)

Need to real all the alternator control stuff Jared has mailed me a while ago...
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Re: 2003 Dodge Neon (#9)

Post by russian » Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:43 am

[video][/video]

Need to implement the alternator logic so that we can use the headlights without the risk of stalling

PS: todo http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=367635
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