1993 Volvo B230F Redblock

[H3LlIoN]

Heyo, just introducing myself. I've got a brick and I'm looking into rusEFI as my EMS solution moving forward. She's stock and naturally aspirated right now, but I'm looking to turbo in the future. I'm brand spanking new to computer controlled engine management systems, so this is going to be a long uphill battle. I look forward to getting this thing together and running though!

- H3

[AndreyB]

Welcome!

One day I might end up with a Redblock, we will see
http://hooniverse.com/2013/12/19/lemons-torture-test-revisited-a-2013-update-top-10/

[H3LlIoN]

They're wicked cheap. There's a '93 not far from you for $800 (if you don't mind autotragic.) You could probably talk him down to $500 so you can be under that limit.

[AndreyB]

They're wicked cheap. There's a '93 not far from you for $800 (if you don't mind autotragic.)

We need that 3rd pedal in racing

[H3LlIoN]

Will the race rules let you swap? I'll keep my eyes open for ya'. I'll have to come out to one of those some time. Do they let spectators in? They look fun as hell.

[AndreyB]

I would not say it's much fun watching, maybe the penalty box: http://www.murileemartin.com/LeMonsPenalties.html

For a brick, the rules would allow pretty much anything - in Lemons the spirit of the rules is more important then the letter.

[H3LlIoN]

You, sir, have a PM.

[H3LlIoN]

Can rusEFI be made to run EDIS?

[AndreyB]

Can rusEFI be made to run EDIS?

http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=823&p=14219&hilit=EDIS#p14222

[H3LlIoN]

Good deal, thanks.

[H3LlIoN]

Now I just need to get to my car and my books, which are 800 miles away for the next two weeks.

[kb1gtt]

Good to hear from you. Have you found the wiki yet? http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

[H3LlIoN]

I have, thank you. The pre-assembled boards are sold out right now, and my car is 800 miles away along with all of my tuning books, so I'm researching fervently for now. I am driving home in two weeks. The car is stock as she sits, with the volvo performance cam. I've got an appointment at my favorite dyno place to get a baseline of where she sits right now, and then go from there. I DD her, but I also use her for track days and drag racing. I have been planning on aftermarket EMS for a while, but am just now getting ready to make moves. I work as a mariner, so I don't always have access to my car. The second project I'm putting together is caterpillar diesel based.

[kb1gtt]

Diesel you say, any chance it's common rail? I've been wanting to do some common rail stuff. I suspect Caterpillar is going to be mechanical injection.

Mariner you say. Is that fishing, cargo, other?

[H3LlIoN]

Some of the older cats are common rail, with the newer ones being HEUI. http://pdf.cat.com/cda/files/87775/7/pehp9526.pdf


Right now I work on traditional sailing vessels teaching at a maritime academy. Do you ship?


Also, I found someone to build the kit for me, so I am going that route as opposed to waiting for the next batch of prebuilts.

[H3LlIoN]

Kit board and connector ordered and en route to builder.

[kb1gtt]

You might find this injector interesting http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=332&hilit=rus084&start=182

About HEUI, I'm not sure I see the efficiency gain. Perhaps before the injectors weren't as developed as they are now when that article was written. I understand many common rail injectors allow multiple pulses during combustion, AKA controls the flame front to prevent chamber erosion. From that tear sheet, it appears rusEFI might be able to control those injectors. I wonder how much current they draw in steady state. I also wonder if they are low side drive. They appear to be low voltage and are probably around 1amp to drive with 12V. I suspect they are for slow rotating engines. I don't think you'd get high RPM's from those, or multi pulses during combustion.

I want to put a Cummins 4bt common rail in my 95 TJ, but that's behind several other projects. AKA with a turbo, you can crank out massive power from those (and most diesel) engines, while keeping fuel economy. Those 4 banger TJ's really need more power.

[H3LlIoN]

I think you posted the wrong link. I haven't even begun to wrap my head around the caterpillar yet, short of piecing together a rough plan. It's going to be a pretty expensive project involving an old boat motor, full custom frame, parts from a bus, parts from a service vehicle, etcetcetc. That's long term for now.

The general idea with the volvo is to get the rusEFI setup and running on my stock volvo redblock with ~330,000 miles on it. Once she's reliably being driven daily, I've got a 13C turbo I will integrate onto the same stock high mileage engine, and I will retune. I plan on posting those base tunes so that others may follow. I'm simultaneously working on a custom engine complete with fancy words like "stroker crank" and "oversized pistons" which will find its way into the car with a much, much larger turbo, or maybe a centrifugal super instead. hmmmm

[kb1gtt]

That other thread is in Russian. The links of interests are below.

http://www.fai.com.cn/English/Technology/2010-04-30/105.html
http://www.fai.com.cn/English/Technology/2010-04-30/106.html
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Qiantangjiang-qj125-7a1-efi-qj125-21a-m8-fuel-injection-nozzle/1062961623.html

About adding a turbo, you generally can't get any real boost unless you change the pistons to get a lower compression ratio. Without the shorter pistons you get into dieseling detonation issues.

[H3LlIoN]

Right, thanks for that.

The stock internals will handle upwards of 10 pounds without issue, so turbo'ing the factory setup is not a concern. I am interested in that because a "+T" as it's called is one of the most popular mods on the 240's, and I am interested in having a workable tune for the rest of them. Again, I'll be separately building a full engine to swap in.

I guess some background would be helpful. I grew up on cars. My father was a heavy equipment mechanic and a gearhead on the side. The first thing we built together was a chevy stroker swap for a CJ7 when I was 8. After that, we started putting together a '75 nova, which I raced from 15-19. He was in a pretty bad truck accident and lost the ability to work on equipment. He's always been interested in electronics, so he has made a hobby and side job of buying broken HAM amplifiers and radios and repairing the circuitry. He also does modifications. He's actually the one who is putting together the board for me, and I'm very excited to be working on a car with him again. He's a brilliant engine guy, and he taught me a thing or two, but we're both new to tuning EFI systems. All our old cars were carb'd.

[kb1gtt]

Ah fellow ham, tell him I say high. You may notice my name KB1GTT

[H3LlIoN]

I'm loosely entertaining the idea of putting a volvo penta s/c off of a D4 onto the built engine. Turbos have been done out the ass, and I love the whistle of a roots wound right the eff out. Currently trying to source information, but it's in the realm of fantasy for the time being. Still working on securing the second engine.

[kb1gtt]

Sizing the roots is more picky then with a turbo. I like supers, but they are harder to get tuned correctly. Blow off valves and backfires also need to be considered closely. Probably best to get it running, then crank up the power.

I seem to recall you were thinking EDIS. I would also recommend against EDIS especially for a performance effort. MS likes it as you can always drive it home even when the ECU is disconnected. However they sacrifice a bunch of control to get that feature.

Can I trick you into considering a J701 or equiv for coil control? I helped a fellow get a neon engine running with one of these, schematics posted here. http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware#J701_NEON_engine_schematics

[H3LlIoN]

Again, the plan is to set the rusefi up on my existing, running, naturally aspirated engine before I do anything else, and daily drive it. Power builders will come after that.

As to coil control...I have no idea yet what I'm going to do. Reading up on EDIS it seems like it's kind of redundant and, like you said, you lose control that you would already have through the rusEFI, yes? I am under the impression from the project summary that Once this thing is built, All I need to do is trace the signal and output wires from my existing computer and move them over to the correct position on the rusEFI one by one. Is that not correct? I was intending for this to buy the mazda harness that fits the 64 plug, and then use spade connectors. Once it's all moved over and I've put some miles on it, The plan is to completely replace the factory harness (They are known to deteriorate and crumble) and yank out the dormant factory electronics. Thoughts? Thanks for the input. I'm paid in full, so this stuff should be headed yonderway soon.

[kb1gtt]

I think you reference this breakout module http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=454 I just added that to the development wiki.

That option was much more critical when rusEFI was younger, it's less critical now. It's not a bad idea, but you can probably reach success with out this module.

This module allows you to first splice in side by side on an existing running engine. Then you can tune and move wire by wire with a fuse jumper. AKA it allows rusEFI to control cyl 1, while cyl 2,3,4 are run via the OEM controller.

[H3LlIoN]

I have a lot to learn.

[kb1gtt]

The more you learn the more you'll know how much more you need to learn

[H3LlIoN]

Okay. I believe that I now have ordered everything that I need to make this work, with the exception of the assorted generic caps/resistors. I am assuming that there is a circuit diagram in the kit, and a list of the additional parts needed. Are these two items hosted online, and can you send me links to these so that he can prep on the build and I can source the assorted goodies? Thanks

[AndreyB]

Frankenso forum thread - http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=569 - has https://svn.code.sf.net/p/rusefi/code/trunk/hardware/frankenso/frankenso.csv

There is also http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual:Hardware_Frankenso_board

[H3LlIoN]

Andrey thanks.

I knew I had seen it on here somewhere before I got in touch, but I was having a hell of a time finding it. All the goodies are in route to the old man.