[rusEfi] 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Sun May 10, 2015 3:02 pm

Confirmed, the alternator is running at about 400Hz, and peaks at 6A and typically runs at 1amp. It would be pushing the limits of the low side drivers, but it should be OK. So I'll use the low side drivers for my alternator control.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by Sam » Sun May 10, 2015 9:29 pm

Sweet! Keep us updated!

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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Sun May 10, 2015 11:51 pm

How about IAT and CLT resistance curves, does any one know the curve? I can't seem to find it in my Haynes.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Mon May 11, 2015 3:42 am

I found a small bit of info about the IAT and CLT, but I have not found the curve.

IAT and CLT are between 175 ohms and 244 kohms. It does not specify the min or max temperatures, just the range.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by 34blazer » Mon May 11, 2015 6:09 am

For the injectors, they should be 21 lb/hr for that year, but the best way to find out is to take a look at the manufacturer number on the top part of the injector. IIRC its a bosch pintle EV1 style injector, look the numbers up with the stan Weiss injector chart....

http://www.users.interport.net/s/r/srwe ... SLER_MOPAR


Also keep in mind that there will need to be voltage offsets built into the PW calcs otherwise there may be wild variations in fueling vs. voltage. Low voltage causes slower opening therefore the need for added offset to keep the engine from leaning out, opposite for higher voltage.

http://injector-rehab.com/shop/lag.html

http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/diy-prom ... ii-pw.html

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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by 34blazer » Mon May 11, 2015 6:11 am

Also, throw that Haynes manual in the trash where it belongs. Grab the FSM instead...

http://dodgeforum.com/forum/2nd-gen-ram ... nuals.html

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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Mon May 11, 2015 9:52 am

I keep forgetting I have that FSM. It lists the values for the IAT and CLT ohms. I put the those values in a spread sheet which includes the analog voltages, when using a 2.7kohm and 5V supply. Here's a snippet of the original spread sheet
CLT-IAT_curve_spreadsheet.PNG
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Here's a copy on google sheets.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by russian » Mon May 11, 2015 8:56 pm

Good stuff! I have the same sensors on my Neon, but less data points. I've just updated your config with these numbers.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Thu May 21, 2015 1:10 am

Small progress, MAP is working. Timing from the OEM has been taken. Well at least with no load. Then when we went to match the timing with rusEFI it appears the idle air flow is to low, so no idle. So I guess it's time to setup the stepper for the IAC. I have the stepper PCB kicking around some where, so I should be able to get that done before to long.

I'm eagerly awaiting for my 14point7. Once I have that I should be in good shape to tune this for real.

Any how, small progress.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by Sam » Sun May 24, 2015 7:15 am

Nice to hear, I've been checking this thread every few days to see if there's been progress, so it's good to see some.

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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Fri May 29, 2015 12:58 am

Some small progress. I didn't have the suggested A4988 but did have a DRV8834 which is only rated for up to 10.8V. So I powered it via 5V. The IAC was moving, but it would change direction based on light pressure from my finger. AKA the 5V isn't enough to drive this IAC. So I need to get the A4988. I was able to get the plunger to back in, then I started the truck and it ran just fine. Idle was a bit high, but it ran fine. So I guess I need to get the proper driver and use that. Any how small progress.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Jun 07, 2015 4:29 pm

Some more small progress. I got the A4988 and now have IAC control, which allows me to again start the engine. I have updated the pin out info in the first post to document the connections. It was a bit of a bugger figuring out what pins were which in the stepper, but now that I have it figured out, it should be much easier for anyone else to figure out.

Next steps are to match the timing to the already captured OEM timing, then install LSU4.9 WO2 and connect to my in hand 14point7 OEM board.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:55 pm

Mild setback. I'll have to get the truck on the lift and use some better proven methods of O2 sensor removal, such that I can get the WO2 installed.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by abecedarian » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:27 pm

In 30 years of working on my on vehicles, and about 10 years working on tractors and similar, not once have I ever broken a tool.

I guess you just have to be smarter than the parts you're working on.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:06 am

I've surprised myself on how I've broken things. In this case it was kind of expected, as I was using my foot to get some extra go on it. However it was also not exactly expected as there was no additional lever arm. I've also broken a 1/4 drive with NO lever arms and my bare hands. I've been told I have a high pain tolerance, which came in handy for when getting myself to exceed the max pressure.

I ordered a replacement O2 sensor, and I plan to break this off and use an impact socket. I understand you need a long lever arm and that these tools with a hole in the side simply do not work. It's not very rusted, and I'm probably changing it long before most people do, so I figured I'd give it a try. About the tool, not a big deal it's got a life time warranty.

I'm also guessing you haven't changed a modern wheel bearing. Those generally require a large force, which often breaks things. Some times things simply rust weld to the point where you can't save them.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by Abricos » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:36 am

Try to heat it up by torch . Oxygen sensor on a tred side to make expend metal to easy remove.

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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by Abricos » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:38 am

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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:20 am

Thanks for the suggestion.

I have used the hot wrench approach when I'm at my dad's, he's got that kind of equipment. However that's an hour drive away, so I tried it here with less tooling to work with. Generally when you are working with an O2 senor it's because you are replacing the O2 sensor. So I've gotten in the habit of breaking it off then using a short impact socket with 1/2 inch drive. I know the sensor is over it's 50kmile mark, so breaking it off is an option. Even though it has some life in it yet, it's at the end of it's life. I generally do the hot wrench if I'm concerned about breaking other parts of the exhaust that might not survive the long wrench approach. The long wrench approach is handy as it's quicker and you don't accidentally burn your fingers.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by abecedarian » Mon Jun 15, 2015 3:46 pm

kb1gtt wrote:I'm also guessing you haven't changed a modern wheel bearing. Those generally require a large force, which often breaks things. Some times things simply rust weld to the point where you can't save them.
I'm also guessing you haven't changed the tire on a semi, backhoe or front loader. Forget 1/2" drive impacts... even good old t-bars won't work. You better have air and a 1" impact drivers.

And, I presume by "modern wheel bearing" you're referencing the spindle or hub mounted "press fit" race that needs removed and replaced when the bearings themselves are replaced? If so, yeah I've replaced them... without using a hydraulic press.


Oh, and the O2 sensors on my vehicles are held in with bolts.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:10 pm

As luck has it, I've done large tire, not semi, but dump truck which is almost the same as semi, as well I've done backhoe and front loader. My grandparents have a significantly sized farm, I was slave labor when I was younger. I agreed about the 1 inch impact. I did it once with out air, but that involved a 50lb wrench and a backhoe for some mechanical advantage :) It was hard to get the air to the field where it was located. I'll have to post the excavator picture. About 6 months ago my 94 year old grand father broke an excavator in half, which is a challenging task for someone my age.

I tend to feel the press in press out bearings are easy. I find the bolt on hub assemblies to be worse. They don't give you flat surfaces to press against, as they expect you won't need to press. They use an aluminum spindle housing and a steal spindle assembly. The bolt on assembly rust weld's itself such that you need to press it out, but they don't give you provisions for making strain relief cuts and they don't make it easy to get on a press. So you end up doing your best and it make a hell of a noise when it lets loose.

O2 with bolts. That's got to be really nice. Mine is more standard.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by abecedarian » Mon Jun 15, 2015 9:46 pm

kb1gtt wrote:O2 with bolts. That's got to be really nice. Mine is more standard.
I think every Toyota 22RE ever made is like that, as were most 22R after 1985. Most have one ahead of the converter, many have another after the converter installed just the same.

So my apologies if millions of vehicles on the road aren't considered standard. :)
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:02 pm

This is the most recent excavator my grandfather broke. He's broken several others, usually it's a blown motor, or similar failure. This failure is impressive. Take note this is in the middle of a field. He says the door opened and he got out to close it, then noticed something was wrong. That's 40 bolts that are larger in diameter than your thumb. All sheared off.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by Sam » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:32 am

Any news?

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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:31 am

Not really. I got the knock sensor yesterday. I also got the replacement O2, so now I need to make sure the O2 connects. Seems 40hrs, kids, and life keep getting in the way. I'm optimistic that I'll get to take a stab at it this weekend.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by Sam » Wed Sep 30, 2015 6:50 am

Any news now?

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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Wed Sep 30, 2015 9:42 am

Sorry haven't made any progress :( The steering box is leaking very badly, I haven't even gotten around to replacing that.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:17 pm

I have the steering gear fixed and can again run the engine. I'm trying to figure out how to sense the pressure from the transmission unit. I don't want to damage the sensor. If anyone knows what kind of sensor it is, or what it's signal to pressure curve is, I would be all ears in learning such data.

Below are some key items of interest from the TSM.
TSM around page 1496 (marked 21-106) wrote:The solenoid valve regulates line pressure to produce governor pressure. The average current supplied to the solenoid controls governor pressure. One amp current produces zero kPa/psi governor pressure. Zero amps sets the maximum governor pressure.
TSM around page 1496 (marked 21-106) wrote:TRANSMISSION FLUID TEMPERATURE THERMISTOR
Transmission fluid temperature readings are supplied to the transmission control module by the thermistor (Fig. 5). The temperature readings are used to
control engagement of the fourth gear overdrive clutch, the converter clutch, and governor pressure. Normal resistance value for the thermistor at room temperature is approximately 1000 ohms.

The PCM prevents engagement of the converter clutch and overdrive clutch, when fluid temperature is below approximately 10°C (50°F).

If fluid temperature exceeds 126°C (260°F), the PCM causes a 4-3 downshift and engage the converter clutch. Engagement is according to the third gear converter clutch engagement schedule.

The overdrive OFF lamp in the instrument panel illuminates when the shift back to third occurs. The transmission will not allow fourth gear operation until fluid temperature decreases to approximately 110°C (230°F).

The thermistor is part of the pressure sensor and is immersed in transmission fluid at all times.
TSM around page 1497 (marked 21-107) wrote:GOVERNOR PRESSURE CURVES
There are four governor pressure curves programmed into the transmission control module. The different curves allow the control module to adjust governor pressure for varying conditions. One curve is used for operation when fluid temperature is at, or below, 1°C (30°F). A second curve is used when fluid temperature is at, or above, 10°C (50°F) during normal city or highway driving. A third curve is used during wide-open throttle operation. The fourth curve is used when driving with the transfer case in low range.

SHIFT VALVE OPERATION
The shift valves are moved by a combination of throttle and governor pressure. The governor pressure is generated by electrical components. The conditions under which a shift to fourth will not occur when:
• Overdrive switch is Off
• Transmission fluid temperature is below 10° C (50° F) or above 121° C (250° F)
• Shift to third not yet completed
• Vehicle speed too low for 3-4 shift to occur
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:37 pm

I guess I could get this sensor from e-bay and hit it with pressure to see what happens. I see it has 4 wires, I believe 2 are the thermistor, and the other 2 are the pressure sensor. I understand newer transmissions have a pressure transducer, which is usually powered, so I wonder if they have a shared common wire, then perhaps 3 wires are used for the pressure sensor.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/96-99-A518-A500 ... L~&vxp=mtr

What pressures do I need to simulate? I have a 100PSI-ish compressor, is that enough, or to much? Above someone posted a ball park 10psi per 10mph, so I guess 100PSI is about correct. I could start low and start working my way up in pressure to see what curve I get. Still would be nice to know what kind of sensor it is before I start trying to reverse engineer it.
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:07 pm

This might be my temperature sensor curve.
2009-10-07_002128_trans_temp_sensor.gif
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This schematic from a 2000 makes me think I should expect the 4 pin sensor should be wired like a POT and a thermistor, sharing a common.
2012-06-14_003215_trans_wiring_2000.gif
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Re: 1996 Dodge RAM 1500 V8 (#15)

Post by kb1gtt » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:34 am

@Sam you da man. Thanks for the below link. It includes the pressure vs voltage chart for the 42RE transmission. It's very likely to be the same for many other models.

http://www.superflow.com/support/suppor ... r/42re.pdf
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