[rusEfi] 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

Good day everyone. How goes the battle?

Well, I'm back to getting this vehicle running. However, after updating to the newest firmware, it will not stay connected to TunerStudio. It keeps "Reading Controller Settings...", then it fails and wants to go into offline mode. I cannot change any settings at this time. However I can see it is still connected in the background - my TPS changes when pressing down, the RPMs change when cranking, etc. but the only option it gives is to click [OK] or the [x] in the corner. Both place TunerStudio in offline mode.

Do we have any fixes or work arounds for this?
Reading Controller Settings
Reading Controller Settings
TunerStudio_001.jpg (249.28 KiB) Viewed 4684 times
Request for offline mode.
Request for offline mode.
TunerStudio_002.jpg (296.91 KiB) Viewed 4684 times
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by AndreyB »

Which cable are you using to connect? How long is the cable?

Microusb on discovery works better. Try different cable?
Miniusb on frankenso might be less reliable.
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

I've tried three different cables that I use to root phones. The lengths vary from 1foot to 3feet. This is directly on the discovery board (mini usb for power, micro usb for programming).

It is stable on the rusEfi console. It will connect and stay connected with any of the above mentioned cables. This is happening on TunerStudio only. Another thing I've noticed, it's only effecting the newest firmware that I downloaded yesterday. My old firmware still connects and is stable on TunerStudio, but does occasionally and randomly drop on the rusEfi console.

Old firmware: snapshot_20160418_1126_rusefi

New firmware: snapshot_20161215_1711_rusefi
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

Ok, so I think I got it figured out...

I just updated my project with the new/current rusefi.ini file. It gave an error on something not matching up...temperature I think, but it is now stable and connected via TunerStudio.

It detected that some settings were different (I erased the board then reflashed it), and it updated the settings on the board from my current project.
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

Ok, so here's the error when I load the ini file:


1 Warnings:
Warning: MSQ Units Mismatch for ignitionIatCorrLoadBins! Temperature found in current configuration, Load found in MSQ, values were not converted to new units.
Is this something I need to worry about?

Also, the controller's LCD displays:

trigger not happy cu
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by AndreyB »

Let's ignore both. 2nd is probably https://sourceforge.net/p/rusefi/tickets/325/
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

The complete error as rusEfi shows in logs:

WARNING: trigger not happy current 1/0/0 expected 8/0/0

I'll ignore if recommended or not important.
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

By any chance, can I get the settings for the miata 1.6l?

Mainly fuel, cranking (timing, dwell, etc). Basically what it needs to start and run (fuel map, tps multiplier, coolant multiplier)

I'd like to see if it works better than sitting outside at 0degrees guessing.
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by AndreyB »

Spine wrote:The complete error as rusEfi shows in logs:

WARNING: trigger not happy current 1/0/0 expected 8/0/0
https://sourceforge.net/p/rusefi/tickets/325/ just fixed
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

Ok, so I'm back now...hopefully for a while to get this darn thing up and running.

So, a little history...I get this thing running decent - then shut it off and try to start it again - it then runs like crap, missing, backfiring, etc. Then it doesn't tune well. Find out fuel pump went out. I did this about three times - all fuel pump. So I've taken out the fuel pump and removed the fuel tank. There was so much sediment in there it was ridiculous...not only that, but it had a hairline crack in it and was slowly leaking fuel.

Here's what I've done to remedy that issue - purchased a 250gal/min 180psi fuel pump. Taken all the fuel lines and replaced them (routed the same location as the originals), and on the fuel draw and return lines, put high pressure fuel line on the end and placed them in a 3 gal fuel tank (temporary till I build/purchase a fuel cell - one of those nice keggers...lol).

So...my todo list:
1.) get it running again
.....a.) get iac valve controller soldered together, installed, and working
2.) get it tuned on idle
3.) get it tuned under load (acceleration @ stop light/signs - basic town driving)
4.) get it tuned under cruising speeds (highway speeds)
5.) get tach working in dash

So, my questions -
1.) did I miss anything on my todo list?
2.) can I get the Mazda Miata's 1.6l settings
.....a.) fuel settings - fuel map, tps multiplier, coolant multiplier, etc.
.....b.) timing, dwell, etc.

I'm still running the firmware from December 2016. Are there any issues I should be aware of, or can I continue to run off this firmware?

Thanks everyone for the assistance.
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by AndreyB »

Welcome back!

Miata 1.6 tune available @ http://www.rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 330#p23812

At least one annoying defect was fixed since December, also there is constant slow usability improvement going on. I suggest latest firmware to simplify things.
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

Hello,

So a most annoying thing is happening. Here's what I've done:

1.) Downloaded latest firmware build (snapshot_20170403_2148_rusefi)
2.) Used STM32 ST-LINK Utility to "Wipe", "Burn", and "Verify" the hex - I used the rusefi_debug.hex file (I've tried both and get the same error)
3.) Open TunerStudio MS (and updated to latest version 3.0.18)
4.) Updated the rusefi.ini file for TunerStudio
5.) Allow TunerStudio to "update" the settings on the card.
6.) Reboot the card (pull all usb cables and kill all available power going to it)
7.) Give ignition power.
8.) I now get the error:
**********BEGIN ERROR**********
13225

PE10 req by c4 used
**********END ERROR**********
9.) I've checked all settings and PE10 "was" used by the idle stepper motor. Because I don't have one as of yet, I made ALL settings for the idle stepper "NONE".
10.) Burn settings
11.) Repeat step 6
12.) Error still persists.
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by AndreyB »

Please open TunerStudio->Board->Full pinput, do you see PE10 anywhere?

Also I believe the full error messa is "req by xxx used by yyy - so what does it say exactly?
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

That's all it showed on the LCD screen.

But the full pinout showed what I needed - Ignition 4 is also using PE10. I've gotta figure out where everything goes now...lol My notebook with everything written in it is so faded I can barely read it. It's been sitting in the car for the whole winter and all the ink is so light and faded...it just makes me laugh.
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

Looking at my first post, I've updated my TunerStudio settings. Now to burn them and test...
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by AndreyB »

Spine wrote:That's all it showed on the LCD screen.
Oh, LCD screen. You should try rusEfi console - it would have shown full error message.
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

Ok, so that fixed that error. Now I get the TPS error is too low (-17%)

Also, I now have no signal going to my ignition controller, and no fuel pump signal. Well, I think I'll be double checking everything now...haha
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

Ok, so I know what's going on with the fuel pump...It's not getting enough amps to push the relay to start the pump. I've tested with voltmeter and here's what I get...

Without relay connected it pushes 13.3v, once I put relay in line, it drops to 5.7v. The relay is a 12v30/40amp relay to run the fuel pump. I'm thinking I may need a second relay for the fuel pump relay (relay to kick in relay to kick in fuel pump...hmmm), or a 5v relay to kick in the fuel pump.

Either way, I need 25amps for the fuel pump - minimum.

Your thoughts?
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by stefanst »

Usually the FP relay is switched via a low-side (injector) driver and not a high-side. High-side (or Hi-Lo as the case may be with rusefi) usually can't drive enough current for an automotive relay.

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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

Gotchya, so my best bet would be to replace the relay with something that rusefi can work with.
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by stefanst »

Spine wrote:Gotchya, so my best bet would be to replace the relay with something that rusefi can work with.
Your relay is fine- you just need to hook it up differently.

It looks like right now you have the one side of the coil connected to GND and the other to a High-side driver on e rusefi.

Do this instead:
The side of the coil that is connacted to GND should be connected to an injector driver on the rusefi board. The side of the coil that is currently connected to the Hi-sie driver should be connected to a fused 12V source (this source should be on when ign is on, including when the starter is engaged)

This is how a fuel pump is usually connected. I would expect your stock fuel pump to have worked the same way.

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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by AndreyB »

stefanst wrote:High-side (or Hi-Lo as the case may be with rusefi) usually can't drive enough current for an automotive relay.
We have a higher current hi-side board if you really need it, but that's an additional mini board - http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=892
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by kb1gtt »

I may be missing something here. Is your problem getting enough current from the ECU to close the relay, or is the problem that the relay when closed is not properly powering the pump?

Can you measure the ohms of the coil in your relay? If I know the relay ohms I can make some guesses about if the hi / lo driver can drive it. Generally they will pull in at about 80%, so call it guaranteed on when the relay coil has about 10V. Then they commonly drop when the voltage drops to around 20 to 30%, so it might drop out when you are down around

For 25A, you want your fuel pump wiring to be around 14awg to 12awg. Do you know if your wires are at least that big?
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by stefanst »

Automotive 40A relay is usually 100mA to 200mA (60 Ohms to 120 Ohms or so). I'm pretty sure that his problem is that the relay is not switching, at least from how I'm reading the original post.

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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by kb1gtt »

The TC4427 can have an output of 12 ohms. If the relay is 60 ohms, you should see about 80% of your voltage on the relay, so 13V would be about 10.8V at the relay.

The TC4427 is limited to about 0.125A due to thermal limitations. I think you can get 0.25 if you are only using 1 of the 2 channels in the package. If you can do the fuel pump on it's own TC4427, that would allow you to drive more amps. If we can keep the thermal under control, this chip can drive 1.5A. If the problem is driving the relay, I think it can be done the way it is wired now. I fear that he's fighting a bad crimp, or small wire. Can he connect a multi meter to the negative of the battery and take voltage readings around the current loop? Check it at the TC4427, then just after the TC4427, then at the ECU connector on the ECU side, then same thing on the harness side, then at the relay, and finally at the relay negative. If you tell us your voltage drops as you go around the loop. we can likely help identify what is causing a problem. Also if you can connect a meter in series and measure the current or measure the coil's resistance, that would also be handy.
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

Question for the electronics gurus here...

Will this relay work for my fuel pump?

Fuel pump requirements:
12v DC, 25amp

Relay link:
https://www.amazon.com/Yeeco-Current-No ... 00R7TTSMI/

DC5v30A It appears that the trigger (rusefi side) is 5v, and the control (fuel pump side) is up to 250v 30a.

Thank you.
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

Hello again, sorry I didn't see all the replies yet...

The relay came with the fuel pump, along with the wiring harness.

Ok, here's the pinout (wiring) of the relay...

RED Bat + HIGH 12V
PURPLE PUMP + switched 12V
Grey Ground - trigger
Yellow Trigger (rusefi) + HIGH 12v

Logic: When rusefi sends 12v to the yellow line, it triggers the relay. When the relay is triggered, it completes the circuit RED to PURPLE, which would start the pump.

What Happens: Using voltmeter on yellow without relay plugged in...When rusefi triggers pump, it gives 13.4v (battery voltage). When I put the relay back in, it drops down to just over 5v. The relay clicks, but softly. The pump does not turn on. When I disconnect rusefi, and run the yellow directly to battery +, the relay clicks loudly and the pump turns on.

So, my question is...will the relay I mentioned work in my scenario?
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by stefanst »

The relay you have installed is the correct relay for your application. You just need to wire it the way I described in the earlier post. Don't change to a 5V relay! It's not the proper tool for the application.
On your 12V 40A relay connect the yellow wire to permanent 12V source. Connect the grey wire to an injector driver on rusefi. Change your settings so that rusefi switches that injector driver for fuel pump and you will have fuel.

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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by Spine »

Ah now I see...hahaha.

So, yellow wire = MAIN relay (12v+ when ignition is on)
Grey wire = (rusefi - fuel pump default-inverted) so when rusefi requests fuel pump, it "grounds" the grey wire.

Or, if that doesn't work, then like you said I'll find an injector driver not used for it.
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Re: 1990 Geo Storm GSI - Advice/Suggestions? #18

Post by matt »

stefanst wrote:The relay you have installed is the correct relay for your application. You just need to wire it the way I described in the earlier post. Don't change to a 5V relay! It's not the proper tool for the application.
On your 12V 40A relay connect the yellow wire to permanent 12V source. Connect the grey wire to an injector driver on rusefi. Change your settings so that rusefi switches that injector driver for fuel pump and you will have fuel.
i am also doing like this.

at first my fuel pump keep running while ig switch is on. i check on board, and found it is my fault soldering the mosfet at wrong way. :lol: :lol:

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