cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Hardware inside and outside of the ECU
nmstec
contributor
contributor
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:02 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by nmstec »

sepp2gl wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:36 pm
OK...got it now.
Thanks for clarification. :)
https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2229&p=43433#p43433


Crankshaft is located nice and deep in the belows of the engine. So when trying to get inthe ballpark of tdc offset, we had a ripped apart motor that was just enough to see and calculate.
But also yes, harley has dual fire plugs.


mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno says i'm not. You said curve would be flat up top, as you saw, its not.
"Dave B. 5:03 PM
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."

-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
mk e
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:32 pm

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by mk e »

nmstec wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:42 pm

mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno says i'm not. You said curve would be flat up top, as you saw, its not.
I would have to dig up the original words, but I recall it looked exactly as expected, all lopsided due to leakage. The pressure curve would never be flat, it will start to drop as soon as leakage rate exceeds pressure gain rate. So a pressure rise and peak is expected ...2-5 degrees or so before true top, depending on how well sealed the rings are. I think what I probably tried to explain is that there is virtually no piston movement in the center 5 degrees and almost none in the center 10 so even a dial indicator is a very inaccurate way to find TDC in that area and standard practice is to stop .100" or so down in one direction and reverse to .100 the other direction and set center in the middle.

I have no idea how the dyno is telling you its correct? You could tell the ECU TDC is almost anywhere and still tune it just fine on the dyno so I'm not sure how that tells you anything? But this also means it doesn't really matter unless you're trying to share tuning tables with somebody who set TDC differently, but it you use you're setup and you tables you have no problem at all.
nmstec
contributor
contributor
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:02 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by nmstec »

nmstec wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:42 pm
sepp2gl wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:36 pm
OK...got it now.
Thanks for clarification. :)
https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2229&p=43433#p43433


Crankshaft is located nice and deep in the belows of the engine. So when trying to get inthe ballpark of tdc offset, we had a ripped apart motor that was just enough to see and calculate.
But also yes, harley has dual fire plugs.


mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno & oem ecu says i'm not. You said curve would be flat up top, as you saw, its not.
"Dave B. 5:03 PM
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."

-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
mk e
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:32 pm

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by mk e »

nmstec wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:19 am
mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno says i'm not.
nmstec wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:19 am
mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno & oem ecu says i'm not.

If you already had the number from the OEM ECU why did you not just use it and save all the time and bother of trying to measure it?

I'm sure a pressure sensor in the plug during cranking is WAY better than guessing ......
nmstec
contributor
contributor
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:02 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by nmstec »

mk e wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:56 pm
nmstec wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:19 am
mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno says i'm not.
nmstec wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:19 am
mk e. you keep saying im off, dyno & oem ecu says i'm not.

If you already had the number from the OEM ECU why did you not just use it and save all the time and bother of trying to measure it?

I'm sure a pressure sensor in the plug during cranking is WAY better than guessing ......
Again, because I don't. OEM ecu (well tmax in this case) does not show tdc offset. It does however show what timing it runs. Considering we did a few baseline runs, we know how much whp to expect out of it. So translation. Cylinder pressure tool did its job properly, I am dead on with timing, you said won't work, it worked. Thank you. Have a lovely day.
OR we could just get back on topic of cylinder pressure sensor. Reason why I did it has near nothing to do with why we want it.
"Dave B. 5:03 PM
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."

-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
mk e
Posts: 477
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:32 pm

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by mk e »

nmstec wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 3:19 pm

Again, because I don't. OEM ecu (well tmax in this case) does not show tdc offset. It does however show what timing it runs. Considering we did a few baseline runs, we know how much whp to expect out of it. So translation. Cylinder pressure tool did its job properly, I am dead on with timing, you said won't work, it worked. Thank you. Have a lovely day.
OR we could just get back on topic of cylinder pressure sensor. Reason why I did it has near nothing to do with why we want it.
Reporting you got the same (similar?) hp for 1 tune as another tune, then implying that means the crank position setting is dead on is a non sequitur.

Mischaracterizing my comments about a method being inherently inaccurate to mean "won't work" is dishonest.

Just sayin.....
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 13279
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by AndreyB »

Cool pic from https://www.ptb.de/emrp/2175.html

We pretty much want to make same thing from scrap :)
Attachments
5942234f84.jpg
5942234f84.jpg (96.29 KiB) Viewed 2073 times
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 13279
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by AndreyB »

Sensata says Cylinder Pressure Only Sensor (CPOS) was supposed to go mainstream on Daimler wonder if that has ever happened?

https://www.car-engineer.com/a-new-cylinder-pressure-sensor-offered-by-sensata/

https://bdn-automotive.com/products/pressure-sensors has a nice comparison of different approaches and they seem to be ready to take my money for Mazda Skyactive-X M8 thread, and 160mm length sensor I wonder what's the part number :)
Attachments
Sensata-CPOS.pdf
(694.86 KiB) Downloaded 35 times
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 13279
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by AndreyB »

in US we mostly have 03L905061 PSG007

Here's the NJ prototype from some years ago
Attachments
WhatsApp Image 2022-06-18 at 4.03.01 PM.jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2022-06-18 at 4.03.01 PM.jpeg (302.57 KiB) Viewed 2062 times
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 13279
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by AndreyB »

Looks for help: looking for long spark plugs with M8 thread.

It looks like NGK catalog has only one 8mm TOTAL NGK ER9EH 5869, while they have a bunch of 10mm thread plugs like NGK 5946 LMAR6A9.
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
Abricos
contributor
contributor
Posts: 848
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:32 am
Location: Carteret, NJ 07008

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by Abricos »

Denso VXUH22I Spark Plug Iridium Tough
5656 Replaces 267700-7380 ILZKR7A
DIMENSIONS:
Thread diameter: 8 mm
Height (mm): 24.5
Width (mm): 24.5
Length (mm): 92

Mark: NGK
Model: LMDR10AJS
Candle for engines 4 time
Overall length: 80 mm
Thread length: 27 mm
Thread diameter: 10 mm
With olive / non-removable core

Mark: NGK
Model: LMAR8F9
Candle for engines 4 time
Overall length: 83 mm
Thread length: 26,5 mm
Thread diameter: 10 mm
With olive / non-removable core
For 14 mm spanner
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 13279
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by AndreyB »

AndreyB wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 9:32 pm
NGK ER9EH 5869
well that's kind of LOL we are not the only one https://pandia.ru/text/80/281/45665.php
image.png
image.png (122.21 KiB) Viewed 1979 times
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 13279
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by AndreyB »

Just info dump:
8946820020 Toyota SENSOR, COMBUSTION PRESSURE

CALDINA 08.1997 - 09.2002

No idea what exactly does it measure
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 13279
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by AndreyB »

Well it cost me an arm and a leg, we shall see if it does the job.
Attachments
spark-adapter.png
spark-adapter.png (294.33 KiB) Viewed 1521 times
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 13279
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option?

Post by AndreyB »

Abricos wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:36 pm
CR glow plug pinout:
1. power (3v if I'm reading this bentley notations correctly)
2. signal to ecu
3. ground
4. glow from J179 automatic glow time control module
image.png
image.png (16.07 KiB) Viewed 1507 times
image.png
image.png (17.65 KiB) Viewed 1507 times
image.png
image.png (60.39 KiB) Viewed 1507 times
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 13279
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by AndreyB »

Well, the cylinder was firing and we've measured _something_ with proper period. While signal shape looks nice there is a bit of a concurn for scale and base line volgate. To be continued in NJ.

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Cylinder-Pressure-Sensor-Glow-Plug

Attachments
at-least-period-looks-good.jpg
at-least-period-looks-good.jpg (481.41 KiB) Viewed 1428 times
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
User avatar
AndreyB
Site Admin
Posts: 13279
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:28 am
Location: Jersey City
Github Username: rusefillc
Slack: Andrey B

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by AndreyB »

$16 for 4 or $16 for 100? hard choice

https://www.gsparkplug.com/100x-spark-plug-top-sae-bullet-terminal-nut-m4-thread-brass.html
https://us.gsparkplug.com/100x-spark-plug-top-sae-bullet-terminal-nut-m4-thread-brass.html
image.png
image.png (215.83 KiB) Viewed 1402 times
image.png
image.png (214.85 KiB) Viewed 1402 times
Very limited telepathic abilities - please post logs & tunes where appropriate - http://rusefi.com/s/questions

Always looking for C/C++/Java/PHP developers! Please help us see https://rusefi.com/s/howtocontribute
nmstec
contributor
contributor
Posts: 120
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:02 pm
Location: Vancouver

Re: cheap cylinder pressure sensor option - smart diesel glow plug with pressure sensor

Post by nmstec »

Any updates?
"Dave B. 5:03 PM
Mark is an ass but by far the most potent combination of knowledgeable ass, smart ass, get it done ass and determined ass. and his ass consistently puts in time."

-Dave B, Hero, Tuner, and probably has a car.
Post Reply