rusEFI Huge questions

[mk e]

I'm looking at the feature list

Huge HW list.JPG (30.38 KiB) Viewed 3943 times

But in the pinout I see it looks like 3 HS, 7 LS and I think 6 outputs labeled tach, fan, boost and such which I assume are lowsides and can be repurposed? Then 4 labeled VVT 1-4 I assume are LS outputs? .....so 3 HS and 17LS in addition to what's on the feature list? This looks like what I was kind of hoping you'd build some day but I want to be sure I'm reading it right.

I downloaded the bundle and I don't see an .ini for tunerstudio? Did I miss it?

[mk e]

I guess another question I have given the large number of I/O pins is if there is a plan to increase the number of GPPWM or channels lua can access/control?

[mk e]

One more question.....how does a massive new ecu that appears to have had 2 names and a bunch of revisions end up in the store with no mention of any kind that I find on the forum? This is likely why my searching time on basic questions led only to dead ends both here on the forums and with general Google searches.

[kb1gtt]

Archive.org has 1st logged the shop page in September about a month ago. It's likely that it's still new / alpha or beta.

I didn't know huge existed until you mentioned it. It's great to see the effort that someone is making.

[mk e]

It's likely that it's still new / alpha or beta.

I was having the same thought.....

[AndreyB]

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/rusEFI-Huge and https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Discord are effectively the only two sources of info

https://rusefi.com/build_server/rusefi_bundle_alphax-8chan_f7.zip seems to contain an .ini file?

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/rusEFI-Huge has a link to schematics which is a bit unreadable. Overall there is no retail organization to answer legit questions unfortunately.

[mk e]

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/rusEFI-Huge and https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Discord are effectively the only two sources of info

The forum is a fine place for support....if someone is assigned to check it. My understanding is that over on MS the development team gets a cut of sales but are responsible to answer question on the forum in return. That is a big part of why they structured the forum by product as they did.

https://rusefi.com/build_server/rusefi_bundle_alphax-8chan_f7.zip seems to contain an .ini file?

Sorry For some reason TS was ignoring it. but I forced it into an existing project and it now reads it fine.

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/rusEFI-Huge has a link to schematics which is a bit unreadable. Overall there is no retail organization to answer legit questions unfortunately.

Can you ask whoever designed it and is getting paid from sales to update the info in the shop so its complete and correct? ...If not all the burden falls to the shop owner Your life would be way easier if you just create a standard HW feature table all the HW versions share, I'd be happy to help you with that.

I do understand that for a SMALL number of people the schematic and source code it all they need but for most car people that is less than no help....when I opened the bundle the ONLY thing in it I wanted was the .ini and I couldn't even find that properly. When I said over on GRM I was looking at this ecu, this was one of the responses:

"I have an ee degree and efi savvy and couldn't get a rusefi working in a resalable period of time. Its like a bunch of programmers that never tuned a car just had an orgy.

.........I've gotten somewhere around 700 cars running on ms but its not for everyone"


Car guys are generally afraid of circuits and code. You've got some nice products, the specs on huge are fantastic but support sells. I need a new ECU and really want to install one of these things and for whatever reason literally thousands or people will watch me do it but so much is missing I know I'll fail. Hell, I'll write the the instructions for you if you find someone to walk me through it so I know what needs to happen, but as is 99+% of shoppers are going to be at least as scared as I am and just pay more elsewhere they aren't scared of.

Lua needs REALLY simple step by step setup instructions, a library of basic functions, and probably its own section in the forum. We talked about why the enginelab I have never really sold many ECUs.....very few people can do even logic level development so all the Lua effort is wasted on the vast majority of potential users and even seeing it just scares them away. I wrote the hold model running my engine and have no idea what to do with Lua. There are 4 GPPWM outputs showing in TS that I know I can make work so 4 outputs is what I need to plan on having, that is my reality. But again, find someone to walk me through it and I will write it down for you, writing work instructions was my 1st job out of college and I'm happy to trade something I know how to do for something I don't.

Give me some confidence it will work and I'll order one

[mk e]

I'll add this, hopefully its helpful. In the past week I think I've gone through the features and software for every ECU out there that has 12 fuel and 6-12 spark outputs.

HW Spec wise rusefi Huge is among the best with the h-bridge current limit the only real weakness.

The software is where the differences really are, arranged by cost:
Bosch - well its bosch, everything is good. Starting at $6500, probably closer to $10k for most applications

motec - the engine control portion is excellent but overall its very much "cripple code" designed to be not quite good enough for anything without additional purchases. There is a solid list of functions/outputs can be linked to but user specified optional output stuff is particularly sad (I assume designed to help sell their PDMs?), probably the worst. US base price currently about $3500, but functional logging adds $400, traction control, $400, lambda from motec WBO2 controllers $800, ect.....its $6k for a functional ECU, $10k for a does everything ECU

Haltech nexus 5 - this is overall easily the nicest. easiest ECU I looked at. The the engine control stuff is very good. Lots of features, 20 each user defined inputs and outputs. Setup made easy with all the high power relays build in. $4500

maxxECU Pro - Surprising weak in the engine control, at least documentation and software layout wise, I couldn't figure out what exactly they are doing to the point I would need to set it up on the bench before putting it on a car to understand how the corrections are used. The user control though is easily the best, all tables everywhere in the ECU the user can change the axis, in most cases I don't know why you would but you can. The user defined I/o is pretty good. The CAN stuff is fantastic and includes transmission control, kind of makes you want to overlook the poor engine setup stuff. $2500 (plus connectors)

ECUmaster Pro 16 - its ok. Engine setup is fine, features fine (although I'm told they my not all work correctly), user I/O is maybe the weakness. It appears to work well but looks like the pro-16 uses the pro 8 software so there is just no way to use a lot of the I/O available. $2500


big gap on price. I left link G5 out, it is 12/6 fuel/spark but with noting left over so not really viably for most installs and priced at $3300



rusEFI Huge - HW specs are very good, only weakness I saw is the h-bridge current rating is lowest in class. Engine control looks good, lots of options that seem to make sense. TS is state of the art 10-15 years ago and there are external elements needed so overall the user experience is clunky and a bit awkward. Lack of documentation and support mean setup is a guessing game. User I/O is similar to ECUmaster, most of the HW capability is not accessible even using Lua (which adds an order of magnitude complexity to user experience). VERY affordable at $825

Pair of rusEFI ua121- Similar to rusEFI huge but WAY easier to setup because Lua is not needed to access adequate amount of user I/O, harder to tune as everything needs to be repeated. $740

[ssmith]

Link G5 Voodoo has 12 injector, 12 ignition (9-12 ign use 13-16 inj), 12 aux (not including wbo), 2 wideband, 2 triggers, 10 digital input, 4 analog temp inputs (builtin pullup), 14 analog volt inputs, and 2 knock inputs. You can see this on the pinout: https://linkecu.com/documentation/G5/G5-Voodoo-Pro-QS.pdf

There's also Emtron KV12 with 12 injector, 12 ignition, 16 aux, 2 wideband, 2 triggers, 15 digital input, 15 analog inputs (individually configurable with pullups, I believe), and 2 knock inputs. Pinout: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0786/6659/6669/files/kv12-rev2-ecu-pinout-a17-1.pdf?v=1690999279

Not sure how many of each aux can be used for ethrottle/ewastegate/etc on each ECU. I think they each have 2 complete h-bridges.

[jevgienij]

That is simply why rusefi ECUs are cheap. With MaxxECU, MoTeC, ECUMaster, etc., you pay for both hardware and software, while here, you only pay for the hardware. As the shop states, you can use rusefi software or write your own. Many, if not most, people drawn by the low prices don't understand this. That said, the software in its current state is very good, but nothing is truly free. The money saved by buying rusefi instead of a $2500 ECU will need to be invested in learning about software and conducting research on your own. However, as a few tuners I know have said, once you get to know it, it's awesome.

[mk e]

Link G5 Voodoo has 12 injector, 12 ignition (9-12 ign use 13-16 inj), 12 aux (not including wbo), 2 wideband, 2 triggers, 10 digital input, 4 analog temp inputs (builtin pullup), 14 analog volt inputs, and 2 knock inputs. You can see this on the pinout: https://linkecu.com/documentation/G5/G5-Voodoo-Pro-QS.pdf

There's also Emtron KV12 with 12 injector, 12 ignition, 16 aux, 2 wideband, 2 triggers, 15 digital input, 15 analog inputs (individually configurable with pullups, I believe), and 2 knock inputs. Pinout: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0786/6659/6669/files/kv12-rev2-ecu-pinout-a17-1.pdf?v=1690999279

Not sure how many of each aux can be used for ethrottle/ewastegate/etc on each ECU. I think they each have 2 complete h-bridges.

Thanks, I looked quick and then skipped them both based on their apparently incorrect documentation.

I download the link software but stopped here

Link G5.JPG (159.64 KiB) Viewed 2658 times

But ignoring the help screen and pushing on it absolutely has the 12/12 selection. I'll need to take a closer look at it.

With emtron, I stopped at their wed page claim

emtron.JPG (65.36 KiB) Viewed 2658 times

which turns out is just nonsense as written, they must have meant it ALSO does staged on a 6cyl. Again I'll need to take a closer look.

[mk e]

However, as a few tuners I know have said, once you get to know it, it's awesome.

Awesome is a bold description.... mostly because its stuck with the limits of TS, which is state of the art circa 2000? The functionality is there for sure but its awkward to use and forces awkward choices and strange limits into the FW. It looks like they are trying to get around the TS limits with Lua which adds functionality at the cost of a whole new level of awkward. But as you say, at the price point a lot easy of use can be overlooked because the features are mostly there, the turning tables are the biggest misses I saw (fixed 16x16 which is generally inadequate rpm axis wise, 12x21 or 11x23 might have been a better choices is memory is the limit, I've never needed 16 load points) and the data logging is just sad even by 20 year ago standards.

I sat down intending to order one a couple days ago but was literally interrupted when an email from enginelab (my current broken ecu, I thought they'd closed) popped in so I'm holding to hear back before doing anything. I may end up trying one thought

[ssmith]

Thanks, I looked quick and then skipped them both based on their apparently incorrect documentation.

I download the link software but stopped here

You didn't see the whole table and thus missed the columns for the Voodoo. Though even the help file just says "Sequential Multi-Point," so maybe it doesn't do exactly what you want. IMO the help files for Link are very good (I previously tuned a G4+ Force GDI) and I find their support forums really good as well. I once wanted to try to push RusEFI more in the direction of Link usability but realized it would be a very long uphill battle, especially if trying to retain backwards compatibility with older hardware.

Screenshot 2024-11-23 085458.png (660.78 KiB) Viewed 2626 times

With emtron, I stopped at their wed page claim
emtron.JPG

which turns out is just nonsense as written, they must have meant it ALSO does staged on a 6cyl. Again I'll need to take a closer look.

Recently I took a look at Emtron, and I was much less impressed by their documentation. However a local shop I know and respect now uses them almost exclusively, so I gave them another look. Their main advantage seems to be that they have an interesting torque approximation model (I believe just based on air mass in g/s) that feeds in to torque cut for revlimit/flat shift/traction control/etc, rather than just doing plain % cut.

Awesome is a bold description.... mostly because its stuck with the limits of TS, which is state of the art circa 2000? The functionality is there for sure but its awkward to use and forces awkward choices and strange limits into the FW. It looks like they are trying to get around the TS limits with Lua which adds functionality at the cost of a whole new level of awkward. But as you say, at the price point a lot easy of use can be overlooked because the features are mostly there, the turning tables are the biggest misses I saw (fixed 16x16 which is generally inadequate rpm axis wise, 12x21 or 11x23 might have been a better choices is memory is the limit, I've never needed 16 load points) and the data logging is just sad even by 20 year ago standards.

IMO the limits of TunerStudio are due to being designed around static/OEM binaries. This conveniently lets them serve as an editor for literally ANY ECU - it just assumes it's editting bits in place, on fixed size/axis tables. Handling dynamic tables would require it imposing a file format that would be different for each ECU that supports dynamic tables.

If you don't like 16x16 you need to edit rusEFI to support the fixed table size you want and then go from there.

Here's where I brought this up before: https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2225

[mk e]

If you don't like 16x16 you need to edit rusEFI to support the fixed table size you want and then go from there.

Here's where I brought this up before: https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2225

Thanks for the info. the G5 does allow me to select 12 sequential fuel and 12 direct fire ignition. Now I need to take the time to go through and see if I can create a base setup I believe will work.

This is one place rusEFI surprised me, it allowed me to do a few things I wasn't expecting so I think I could get it working pretty ok for the most part.


and I saw that thread....dynamic tables are really hard to give up once you've had them but a no-go with TS. Fixing the table size is something I MIGHT be able to accomplish given enough time....I'm pretty good at breaking stuff but occasionally stumble on a way to improve something. Logging, there's no chance I could fix that...the best rusefi option looks like a pair ua boards with SD cards but I'm not clear yet on how well supported they are in the FW, haven't spent much time looking yet.

[mk e]

This looks like its a typo in the pinout and TS naming for lowside1. 16C is what I see in TS, and it is pin D16 so its correct, but its the only pin in the pinout I see with mismatched pin names.

16C pin typo.JPG (56.59 KiB) Viewed 1721 times

[AndreyB]

Nice! Should be fixed by https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/commit/fd5b36f73d85d1573c049b9bbe24b06f1cbb5784