Common Rail ECU

[AndreyB]

Check www.ecuconnections.com my discusion

maybe http://www.ecuconnections.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=57955

[dist01]

yes, iam waiting for schematic if he share me


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[dist01]

http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/showthread.php?tid=3170

http://www.sta-tn.com/IJ_STA/Papers/volume_10N1_April_2016/P2_IJSTA_V10N1_SI_AND_16.pdf


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[AndreyB]

I suspect that as-is we are pretty far from this level of precision. I've created a ticket to write some test code but as-is I know it would fail. https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/557

Hm... I am actually wrong. I could be missing something but actually got a pretty nice repetitive pin toggle with 20us on/off times.

See comments on https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/557 for .csv files and google docs



So looks like firmware side of things is somewhat possible. Once someone fabricates a test bench or gets the hardware to try all this on a real common rail vehicle we can look into next steps

[kb1gtt]

That looks great. I think that a 5uS increment is good for 15 injector pulses when running at about 6kRPM. I ballpark that with the below fuzzy math.

Time for one rotation at 6kRPM is...
seconds/rot = (1min/6,000rot) (60sec/1min) = 10mS.

Then combustion is aprox 50% of one rotation, so aprox 5mS is combustion. Per the below, some injectors can pulse up to 15 times per combustion event.
https://www.embedded.com/print/4019437

So 5mS / 15 = 0.333mS. With a 0.005mS increment, that means we have about 66 increments to work with, in each of the 15 pulses.

That kind of resolution should allow us to inject to just below the detonation pressure, while cutting off fuel before we reach detonation pressures. I think the 5uS increments is more than enough for controlling common rail injectors. So that's good news.

[kb1gtt]

I think I'm going to start drafting a layout for the eval board, such that we have the beginning of our own board.

@ can I get you to enter the BOM found at the below PDF into a google spreadsheet? I would like to focus my resources on doing the layout. I feel confident it needs to happen at some point, so I want to start the layout. If you do the spreadsheet, could you add the cost / component and total cost of each components, such that we can calculate the total cost of the baord. I know we can purchase this board for $250. I wonder how much it would cost if we built it ourselves.
https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/user-guide/KT33816UG.pdf

[dist01]

https://www.bookdepository.com/Diesel-Engine-Management-Robert-Bosch-GmbH/9780470026892

Maybe this book is clever for create ECU

[AndreyB]

https://www.bookdepository.com/Diesel-Engine-Management-Robert-Bosch-GmbH/9780470026892

Maybe this book is clever for create ECU

The book would not hurt but it looks like we are ready for experiments. Let me know once you have hardware ready and we can work on software.

[kb1gtt]

Looks like I can fairly easily convert the PDF BOM table into a spreadsheet. I have imported this spreadsheet into google docs. See below.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ajEQMsUm_KsZggC4C6bLrQnL3lhPKaaXv21YV46J1LM/edit?usp=sharing

If I don't hear about someone populating a $ column for this, such that we can predict the cost of this board, I'll probably do it in the next couple of days.

[kb1gtt]

I couldn't help myself, and couldn't sleep, so I populated the costs of the BOM. If we use the BOM provided, and exclude a couple of crazy priced items, like $0.30 test jumpers, it looks like the cost is aprox $120 usd plus shipping. That's assuming a $50 PCB cost, and there are a couple components which will need substitutes as they are not longer available. Those are currently not included in the BOM, and assumed they will cost around $3.

I guess I now need to see what parts from Frankenso we can use, and then populate a BOM for our own layout of this chip.

Also there must be better options for these sense resistors. Those seem significantly high priced for what they are. I'm sure substituting them could save some money.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Dale/WSK2512R0100FEA?qs=%2fha2pyFadugcE3TKC5QocLu82x5XVDQAV%2fdaFKaTT%2fpkqBekPjqiYS00SHuEJUOK&utm_source=octopart&utm_medium=aggregator&utm_campaign=71-WSK2512R0100FEA&utm_content=Vishay
https://www.alliedelec.com/vishay-dale-wsk2512r0150fea/70396887/?utm_source=octopart&utm_medium=part_sourcing&utm_campaign=octopart

[kb1gtt]

Couple of questions

Is 72V enough voltage for a typical injector? I ask because the MC33816 only boosts to 72V. I've seen some older documents which noted the injectors could be around 150V to 350V. So I wonder has the industry settled on a lower voltage, or is the MC33816 perhaps a bit limited?

What is a typical injector current? I ask because I see on the eval board they have the same 12V protection that we already have on the Frankenso. If the Frankenso can handle the amps, I would likely reuse the 12V, 5V and 3.3V from the Frankenso.

Also I can't seem to figure out if Flag0-3 (pins 10-12) can direct drive an LED. For some reason the eval board used a push pull transistor chip. This Darlington transistor chip consumes about 1mA, to drive 500mA. However the LED on the eval board is set to about 7mA, and would probably be bright enough even at 1mA. So I don't see why they use an intermediate chip which consumes 1mA to drive a 1mA LED. Why not just drive the LED directly. As well how much can the FLAG# drive? I can't seem to find those answers.

I'm also not sure how much 3.3V this eval board consumes. I wonder if we have that much 3.3V to offer from the discovery, or if we need a local 3.3V to provide enough current. The Discovery's LD3985M33R can provide 150mA. I suspect the discovery is not consuming very much, so I think we have enough to drive this board, but I don't know that for sure. So I wonder how much this board consumes. I guess We could also measure how much the discovery is consuming. I need both discovery and this board to be below 150mA.

[dist01]

it is possible to use the Fairchild Semiconductors Common Rail solenoid sample circuit



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[kb1gtt]

Yes it is possible to use that driver circuit. The circuit is the same circuit used by most of these injectors. What is not shown is the HSD driver chip, or the high voltage boost chip. Those are where the magic happens. That circuit is just a high side driver and a low side drive.

[dist01]

And no difrence driver betweene FSI or GDI gasoline or diesel CR?


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[kb1gtt]

Just a cross posting. A board for the MC33816 common rail injector driver chip has been laid out in KICAD and can be found at the below link.
https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1337

[AndreyB]

speeduino forum mentions "Delphi IDM-2 GDi Driver Control Module" lazy migration option

Code: Select all

The Delphi IDM-2 GDi Driver Control Module is an injector driver module that can be used with a port fuel injection engine control module or powertrain control module to modify the electronic signal and effectively operate gasoline direct injection (GDi) fuel injectors and provide high pressure fuel pump control. It is designed to provide manufacturers with a low cost option to implement GDi in an existing port fuel injection engine program and help enhance performance and fuel economy and reduce exhaust emissions.

Used on 2013 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.9L engine they say.

Also MD340897 is very available from Europe also seems to be an add-on's to the main ECU.
MITSUBISHI PAJERO PININ 1.8 GDI 2003
MITSUBISHI GALANT 2001 YEAR
MITSUBISHI CARISMA 1.8 INJECTION
2001 VOLVO S40 1.8 PETROL FUEL INJECTION MODULE MD340897
https://www.drive2.ru/l/462463112931443148/ has an attempt to make a schematics

MR507766 looks quite similar

https://autodata.ru/article/all/gdi_ostsilogramma_raboty_forsunki/

[AndreyB]

another lazy (?) option
89871-30030 GS 300/400/430 2005-2011 ; IS 250/350 2005-2013
89871-50010 2007-2012 Lexus LS460 or GS460 fuel injector module
89871-53010 LEXUS IS250 IS350

[AndreyB]

another lazy (?) option
89871-30030 GS 300/400/430 2005-2011 ; IS 250/350 2005-2013
89871-50010 2007-2012 Lexus LS460 or GS460 fuel injector module
89871-53010 LEXUS IS250 IS350

Looks to be a close relative of 2017 2018 2019 2020 Toyota 86 Driver Injector Control Unit 22635-Jb000

[AndreyB]

The spill control valve can be tested with a Ohm meter and should read between 1-2 OHMS

[AndreyB]

Rev C has moved us forward but we have run out of luck with https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi-hardware/issues/143 - two out of five boards have poped on first injector test due to some combination of THREE different kinds of fab issues. Three boards are functional as prototypes with preemptive solder add.

A bunch of incremental changes are planned for rev D, no way to predict when I will have red D in my hands, could be anywhere between 4 and 20 weeks from now https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi-hardware/labels/GDI4-rev-D

For right now BMW 7506280 is still the safest way to experiment with rusEFI gdi unless your application requires peak/hold spill valve control like on 4DS