Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Hardware inside and outside of the ECU
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sparky
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Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by sparky »

Just wanted to get some (hopefully) objective thoughts on why I am wanting to choose Microsquirt over RusEFI.

A bit of background I am doing a 2 stroke dirt bike conversion. 1 cylinder lightweight bike.

The reasons why I am wanting to do microsquirt are:

#1 there are more people on the msextra forums who actually have done 2 stroke motorcycle conversions and are still active and answering questions on the forum. I have not found anyone here who has done it with RusEFI and is still active.

#2 space is tight - I have about 90x90cm including enclosure

#3 onboard power supply.



I will be giving up:

- onboard logging - I will have to plumb in some kind of bluetooth logging module (putting a PC on dirt bike is a pain, so it needs to be done through a more portable device)

- newer, faster processor - I dont think the really matters for a 1cyl bike with 24 teeth


So what am I missing?
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AndreyB
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by AndreyB »

There is no way around (#1) whatsoever. If this argument is big enough for you - you got your answer.

For #2 we do not have any readily available answers, at the moment all the boards are at least 100x100.

If you are in a mood for an adventure and greater good for the humanity, you can use $100 to hire someone to design you a microRusEfi board for your moto requirements.

Maybe from a country with cheaper labor - maybe somewhere in Eastern Europe, I can even volunteer to translate if needed :)

Brain board: discovery has best availability but https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1489 or https://www.ebay.com/itm/STM32F407VET6-STM32-ARM-Cortex-M4-Development-Board-System-Board/173407441568 which is https://github.com/mcauser/VCC_GND_F407 would give you SD slot and RTC oscillator right on the brain board.

Power supply: use on of these eBay boards - again just have a corner for it on your microRusEfi board made out of Frankenstein or Prometheus.
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by AndreyB »

Power supply options for a dirt cheap solution, I am not qualified to comment how crazy of an option either of them is.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3A-mini-DC-DC-Buck-Step-down-Converter-Volt-Regulator-5V-12V-Fixed-Output-Module/323523261963 LM2596 with two electrolytic capacitors

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5pcs-lot-Ultra-Small-Size-DC-DC-Step-Down-Power-Supply-Module-3A-5v-Fixed-output/32828204122.html MP1584

A footprint could be made to match a couple of different options
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by puff »

I'd say you can watch several videos on KiCad, decide, which circuitry (inputs-outputs) you need, and build a board of your own, based on that small cheap 5x4 cm board (link above), cutting away what's not needed from Frankenstein.
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kb1gtt
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by kb1gtt »

Ah, I see you are considering Frankenstien, with external power supply. However that violates your 90mm desire, as it will be larger when you have an enclosure. So based on space, currently there are no options. However....

Do you have a desired enclosure? How about a connector? I recall Cinch enclosures. Would one of them suffice? I have some of them already drawn up in KICAD. If we have an enclosure, connector and desired set of circuits, it wouldn't take very long to spin a PCB. Like @ has noted, if you have the dream list, it might not cost much to simply hire the layout to be done. Or if you patient with some folks, it might happen given time.

Is cost a critical concern? I'm sure we can get you there, but you would be a test case, and it might require spinning a PCB more than once to get things just right. I think for the cost of a MS, you could potentially get multiple PCB's of a custom rusEFI design. I believe a rusEFI design would be significantly lower cost.

How are you about soldering? Would you desire a populated board or would you be OK with getting just a PCB and soldering it yourself? AKA you can get the costs much lower if you are willing and capable of tossing the sweat equity at the PCB assembly.

You are correct, you have a larger user base to tap into with MS. However you are also bound to what MS has decided you need for hardware. Here you can choose what you need and focus on just that. AKA over there, they likely need more support to work around issues. Here you can simply fix issues, such that work around's are less of a concern.

With MS, your just copy and past, while here you can be a pioneer, and get your name down in history :)

Any how, reasons to go with rusEFI include potential to reduce size, potential to use a case which fits your needs, and general flexibility.
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by kb1gtt »

I recall that fellow got something like 9kRPM. He was top notch in his craftsmanship. I wonder if he spun his own board.

We have had several folks who want a water tight, 2 cyl ECU. I think it would be beneficial to have such an option. A key hold up is choosing an enclosure and connector.
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sparky
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by sparky »

Thanks for all the info - it helps.

One big negative about uSquirt: it only has a 12x12 VE table - which is a major drawback for a technical dirt bike (especially if I am running Alpha-N). 16x16 is better. 24x24 would be very good and competitive with aftermarket units.

Money is not a big deal, although I am not going to toss $1000s at it. I dont really want to get into spinning my own board if I can help it, but not afraid to go there.

Support is a big deal. I have been on the bleeding edge in other areas of my work, and support is a very important point. I suppose I can get 2-stroke/motorcycle advice from ms forums and then implementation advice from here. Its good that both products use Tuner Studio.

I am not really interested in being a pioneer or a hero - I just want a smooth running bike. I am more than happy to contribute back to the community.
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by AndreyB »

sparky wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 2:47 am
I am not really interested in being a pioneer or a hero - I just want a smooth running bike. I am more than happy to contribute back to the community.
Maybe joining https://www.patreon.com/rusefi with your left hand while getting yourself a Microsquirt with your right hand?

At the moment microRusEfi would need a pioneer and a hero to happen. Right now we have two or three projects which are supposed to help us dominate the universe but it would take some time :)
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kb1gtt
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by kb1gtt »

Even if you do not got the rusEFI route, any chance you might find an ECU connector and case? A key thing which prevents me from spinning a PCB is knowing this information. I simply haven't taken the time to research it. If you could choose any connector you wanted, what would it be?
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960
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by 960 »

Infineon have a all in one solution for one cylinder engine in stock

https://www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/automotive-system-ic/engine-management-ic/tle8080-3em/
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by sparky »

he he - that looks interesting. Perhaps my second project I will take a harder look at it.

The ability to adjust the size of the VE table is an important thing. This is a technical bike so fine throttle control is very important. Commercial EFI systems for these bikes have 24x32 tables. The first 10 rows of TPS are for 1-10%! A big advantage to RUSEFI is that I can change the config pretty easy , and it has the horsepower to handle a larger table.

I took a look at the sizing requirements, and I can move the ECU to another location that will have a bit more room. Perhaps the Prometheus may be an option.
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by AndreyB »

One day I will write a little HOWTO on how to change table sizes in rusEfi, should be a two minute thing theoretically. That's assuming tables even need to be changed this was recently discussed at https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1472.
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

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Last edited by mck1117 on Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by kb1gtt »

I'm likely to put the TLE8080EM on a PCB with 35 pin amp seal connector, and small STM board. Do you have a specific set of signals you desire? Do you desire on-board igniters or would you plan to drive external igniters?

I think for my motorcycle, I would need at least, one crank input, one injector, one ignition, IAT, MAP, and TPS. Would you have any other desired circuits?
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sparky
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by sparky »

I could do on or offboard ignitors - onboard is simpler though.

I would also use CLT.

A nice to have would be O2 with heater driver, or at least O2 input. For 2 stroke this would only be for tuning, for 4 strokes it would be a permanent addition.

A big feature for motorcycle would be onboard logging, or buetooth so that we could use a smartphone for field testing. It is a pain to strap a laptop to a bike (especially a dirt bike, or even a trial bike.) for field testing/tuning. Here is an example of a trials bike that is #3 on the list for conversion...
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Number-One
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by Number-One »

Abricos wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:14 pm
https://youtu.be/QTKHlRsIBIA
This is my bike :D
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by Abricos »

Number-One wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 5:25 pm
This is my bike :D
It's still live ... do you drive on this setup ???
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Re: Thinking of Microsquirt over RusEFI

Post by Number-One »

Yes, its alive but more projects, no time to finish this bike. The plan is built a dyno this year to adjust fuel and ignition.
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