Page 1 of 1

GDI: injector control options

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 3:26 am
by AndreyB
MC33816 and PT2000 from NXP have quite different names but we believe those are pretty similar products, both are programmable with a full-blown assembly language.

ST whitepaper on GDI https://www.st.com/resource/en/white_paper/stmicroelectronics_enables_electronic_control_of_the_next_generation_of_gasoline_direct_injection_gdi_engines.pdf mentions L9781 https://www.st.com/en/automotive-analog-and-power/l9781.html which has not been mentioned on this forum so far.
The L9781 is a multi valve pre-driver capable of driving 11 external N-channel logic level MOSFETs, controlling up to 5 inductive loads through peak and hold current control and one DC/DC step-up converter, providing full protection against accidental faults on the external hardware. The load peak and hold current control (together with the diagnosis) is done by the internal configurable Finite State Machines (FSMs) needing only the start of actuation commands from the main microcontroller.
Does anyone have the brains to compare the NXP solution to ST solution? Are there any other options on the marker?

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 3:34 am
by AndreyB
One the one hand looks like L9781 is available for sale in singles but no datasheet? I am only able to find a 10 page dataBRIEF https://www.st.com/resource/en/data_brief/l9781.pdf

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 1:17 am
by AndreyB
http://www.bosch-semiconductors.com/automotive-system-ics/engine-management-systems/cy335/ is the bosch option - again no datasheet? Also no availability? :)

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 8:13 am
by 960
I have a bad feeling for the PT2000, and hope we can find something else.

The safest option would be a Bosch IC.

The option we have most information for are the CJ830/CJ840.

It's the HI-Quad 64 found in MED7, MED9 and MED17

The IC's have different numbers for revisions/years, I have a 2006 MED9 here with number 30469

Its found in all Bosch GDI ECU's from 2000 to at least 2010, so I guess we could gather some more OEM numbers.

We have diagrams, reference design, sample code, SPI commands, maps and all values.

And we know it's working.



Also, please download



It's newer than the last one, more English and cleaned up a lot.

The functions name are

INJDDGDI

If we could find a supplier and datasheet for CY335 would be even better.

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 12:10 pm
by AndreyB
960 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:13 am
The option we have most information for are the CJ830/CJ840.
Looks like we do not have a datasheet?
CJ830 only available from one place in Poland NOS https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-CJ830KS-CJ830-Automotive-IC-QFP64-BOSCH/263302842429

CJ840 two sellers on eBay

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 12:21 pm
by 960
russian wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 12:10 pm
960 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:13 am
The option we have most information for are the CJ830/CJ840.
Looks like we do not have a datasheet?
CJ830 only available from one place in Poland NOS https://www.ebay.com/itm/1pcs-CJ830KS-CJ830-Automotive-IC-QFP64-BOSCH/263302842429

CJ840 two sellers on eBay
Try searching with the numbers at the IC's

Bosch 30469 are CJ840.
There are more numbers as well

All Bosch GDI IC's between 2000 - around 2010 should be CJ830/40 (They should all be HIQuad64)

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 1:19 pm
by Simon@FutureProof
If we look at Bosch chips can we be sure of supply? It has been my experience that the chips are available either to OEM clients or on a very patchy aftermarket basis.
That or they can change part numbers seemingly at random making identifying chips a game of whack-a-mole.

This makes DIY build pretty much impossible and opens us up to obsolescence when Bosch just decide to end the production of a chip as their main OEM customer has stopped using them.

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:36 pm
by 960
OrchardPerformance wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 1:19 pm
If we look at Bosch chips can we be sure of supply? It has been my experience that the chips are available either to OEM clients or on a very patchy aftermarket basis.
That or they can change part numbers seemingly at random making identifying chips a game of whack-a-mole.

This makes DIY build pretty much impossible and opens us up to obsolescence when Bosch just decide to end the production of a chip as their main OEM customer has stopped using them.
I know it's not a ideal solution.
Bosch IC's have always been a pain.

If we could gather some more part numbers, search would be easier.

What helps, is they did not have any other GDI driver for that long time period.

At the moment it seems to be just the PT2000 available, and I just dont like it.

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:39 pm
by AndreyB
MC33816 is very available, why do you ignore MC33816?

chrome_BhH7PrklmQ.png
chrome_BhH7PrklmQ.png (176.26 KiB) Viewed 22479 times
chrome_XxbOKYuQtC.png
chrome_XxbOKYuQtC.png (154.73 KiB) Viewed 22479 times

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:51 pm
by 960
MC33816 = MCPT2000

So if I had to choose, it would be the PT2000

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:58 pm
by AndreyB
960 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 2:51 pm
MC33816 = MCPT2000
These chips are close to each other but also not the same chip at all see https://www.nxp.com/docs/en/application-note/AN5203.pdf

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 3:18 pm
by 960
That's what I consider the same.

I see no reason to waste time at the MC33816, as the PT2000 are both newer and better with 6 cylinders.

I am also sure the MC33816 are soon to die out anyway.

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:24 am
by AndreyB
Has anyone seen a price list for Bosch Motorsport? Wonder how much are "Injection Power Stage HPI 5-M 4C" or "Injection Power Stage HPI 5-M 8C"

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 3:46 am
by AndreyB
Focus tune random pic from Matt - injector flow, injector flow temp comp, and pressure target.

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:35 pm
by 960
As you dont have Winols, Tunerpro are the second best.

https://www.tunerpro.net/

Then try finding xdf files with as much as possible, or make it yourself.

(I can give you full damos (A2L file) you can find all offsets and math. Tunerpro doesnt work with A2l :-( )

A MED9.1 sample package with damos:
S3_265_PS_2.0T_MED9.1.zip
(4.86 MiB) Downloaded 469 times
(Can be parsed with free software Hexplorer)

Some TFSI example:

http://nefariousmotorsports.com/forum/index.php?topic=9017.0title=

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
by Rhinoman
Some A2L information here: https://www.asam.net/standards/detail/mcd-2-mc/wiki/
that includes a dll for a translator. I have used A2L files previously with CANape and CCP, I may have some more information somewhere, MATLAB has a utility that can extract data but its probably part of one of the add ons targeted at ECUs which are quite expensive.

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:41 pm
by 960
Rhinoman wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
Some A2L information here: https://www.asam.net/standards/detail/mcd-2-mc/wiki/
that includes a dll for a translator. I have used A2L files previously with CANape and CCP, I may have some more information somewhere, MATLAB has a utility that can extract data but its probably part of one of the add ons targeted at ECUs which are quite expensive.

Great info! Thanks :-)

I use them with Winols, but there are not many free/cheap softwares to work with ASAP2 files.
This is the only one I know of:

https://github.com/adhoc2/HEXplorer

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:39 pm
by 960
960 wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 2:41 pm
Rhinoman wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:11 am
Some A2L information here: https://www.asam.net/standards/detail/mcd-2-mc/wiki/
that includes a dll for a translator. I have used A2L files previously with CANape and CCP, I may have some more information somewhere, MATLAB has a utility that can extract data but its probably part of one of the add ons targeted at ECUs which are quite expensive.

Great info! Thanks :-)

I use them with Winols, but there are not many free/cheap softwares to work with ASAP2 files.
This is the only one I know of:

https://github.com/adhoc2/HEXplorer
The A2L files are also needed by the car mfgs to map the ecu live with Inca.


It would be great to have Inca and all the ETAS hardware, but it costs a bit too much :-(

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:51 pm
by AndreyB
This topic was intended to be about GDI hw options.

Re: GDI: injector control options

Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:35 pm
by 960
russian wrote:
Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:51 pm
This topic was intended to be about GDI hw options.
ETAS/INCA and any GDI ecu are a solution :-)

Back to topic:

I dont think there are anything else than the MC33PT2000 , and the other NPX Ic's at the market.

The other(and best/cheapest solution)would be to make MCU adapters for MED9, but that would require writing code for the GDI IC..