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Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:49 pm
by Kavabanga
Hi everybody! This is my first post on this forum!
I would like to install RusEFI ECU to Honda CBR600RR engine. So, i wanna use 4 fuel injectors and one elctronic throttle body with reciever. Now I have some questions about hardware:
1. How to make O2 sensor controller for ECU?
2. How to make ETB contorrel?
Where can i take schemes and other documentation of that?

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:32 am
by russian
rusEfi has not really documented build-in controller using CJ125. For that you would need to order some boards https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/blob/m ... R0.4.1.zip for instance using oshpark.com service or wherever you fabricate your PCBs. See also viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1052 for very unclear documentation.

https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/pro ... l_plus.php is the safe option for WBO.

ETB:

rusEfi option you would need VNH2SP30 eBay board like "30A Mini VNH2SP30 Stepper Motor Driver Monster Moto Shield Module For Arduino i". Very minor testing was done with ETB on rusEfi

https://www.pololu.com/product/1392 safer (?) option.

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:33 am
by russian
ETB development thread viewtopic.php?f=5&t=592

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:17 pm
by Kavabanga
Hello! Thank you for you answer!
To control the throttle position, ETB has two potenciometers (position sensors). If deviation between APPS and TPS is more than 10%, the power to the electronic throttle must be immediately shut down. If an implausibility occurs between the values of the two TPSs and persists for more than 100
msec, the power to the electronic throttle must be immediately shut down also. I can use Arduino (not best solution, of course....) to control ETB by special driver (VNH2SP30 why not?), throttle position by two position sensor and APPS and use one of ETB`s potenciometers like TPS for Frankenso.
So, Frankenso will "think" that i use simple throttle. One of ETB`s potenciometer will connect with Frankenso like TPS and with Arduino like one of ETB position sensor. What do you think about it? I know about it is NOT best solution....
Can i make system with that parameters using just Frankenso? What i need for that?
Thank you

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:26 pm
by russian
Kavabanga wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:17 pm
Can i make system with that parameters using just Frankenso? What i need for that?
Thank you
You would need to implement the missing code in rusEfi

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:45 pm
by Kavabanga
Thank you for you answer!
I know about code)
I am talking about hardware: how can i connect ETB position sensors and APPS to Frankenso?
Sorry for stupid questions :roll: , but now it is real problem for me... :?

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:50 pm
by russian
Frankenso has 11 analog inputs total - https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... enso_board

your engine would probably use 4 or 6 analog inputs, you would have another five inputs unused. You definitely have spare inputs for second TPS channel

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:33 am
by Kavabanga
Oh, thats good!
Does Frankenso have the ability to detect APPS or TPS circuit break?

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:58 pm
by russian
Kavabanga wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 11:33 am
detect APPS or TPS circuit break?
What is your background again - software, mechanical or electrical?

please spend some time looking at the wiki for the board and the schematics. The board has options to install pull-up or pull-down resistors, the software can treat zero voltage input as a circuit break I guess? I am not even sure what a circuit break is exactly so be very careful with what I am saying and use your judgement.

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:56 pm
by Kavabanga
Yes, you are right: the software can treat zero voltage input as a circuit break. In some documents on github i saw comments about TPS:
/**
* TPS 0% 0.9v
* TPS 100% 2.34v
*/
So, i think, if TPS work properly and circuit is not break, value on analog input smaller, than 0.9v and bigger, than 2.34v is impossible, and software can make a conclusion about the fault of TPS if value on analog input dont included in the scope of 0,9 to 2,34 volts, right?

Thank you for your answers and patience :roll:
You help me so much

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:58 pm
by russian
Kavabanga wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 10:56 pm
So, i think, if TPS work properly and circuit is not break, value on analog input smaller, than 0.9v and bigger, than 2.34v is impossible, and software can make a conclusion about the fault of TPS if value on analog input dont included in the scope of 0,9 to 2,34 volts, right?
Exactly!

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:31 pm
by Kavabanga
Ok, thank you, that is information, which i wanted.
In the big space of information on github i found this scheme.
If i will use ETB, i will need to connect more than one potenciometer (two on ETB and two on APPS). As i know, Frankenso have one this scheme on board. So, if i will use ETB, i will need make PCB`s (one PCB for one potenciometer) of this scheme and connect them to free analog inputs on Frankenso to make the system with APPS and ETB safety, right?
I hope, my message is easy to understand :)

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 11:45 pm
by russian
Kavabanga wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:31 pm
So, if i will use ETB, i will need make PCB`s (one PCB for one potenciometer) of this scheme and connect them to free analog inputs on Frankenso to make the system with APPS and ETB safety, right?
Wait, what? Why?

No. Frankenso has all this already. You just connect two channels of ETB to frankenso, nothing else.

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:12 pm
by Kavabanga
Oh, it`s hard to understand
How many analog inputs use this schematic on Frankenso?
I spent and spending a lot of time to learn the wiki for the board and the schematics and i still don`t understand many aspects, sorry for that questions...

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:22 pm
by russian
Kavabanga wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:12 pm
Oh, it`s hard to understand
How many analog inputs use this schematic on Frankenso?
I spent and spending a lot of time to learn the wiki for the board and the schematics and i still don`t understand many aspects, sorry for that questions...
Each external potentiometer would need one analog channel of Frankenso. It looks like your requirements are to use to potentiometers - two throttle position sensors. So, two position sensors would use two channels?

I believe you need to consult with someone who would be able to read Frankenso schematics.

Frankenso schematics https://raw.githubusercontent.com/rusef ... ematic.pdf

I've just checked and there is a link to that from https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... enso_board there is a chance that this link is not very visible :(

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:24 pm
by mck1117
Kavabanga wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:12 pm
How many analog inputs use this schematic on Frankenso?
None of the analog inputs on Frankenso use this exact circuit. The circuit is different, but will function the same (and is better protected against shorts/high voltage). You can wire a TPS or other sensor to any of the analog inputs on Frankenso. All channels are wired the same, and function the same.

The connector pinout on this wiki page shows which pins are analog inputs:

https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... enso_board

I think there are 10 or 11 such inputs routed to the connector.

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:21 pm
by Kavabanga
Thank you for your answers!
What kind of crankshaft and camshaft position sensors installed on this engine (hall, vr)?
Maybe somebody can consult me?
I have electronic circuit diagram and oscillograms of crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensor
(To see circuit diagram in normal scale, open it in new tab) :)

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 1:09 am
by mck1117
Those look like they're both VR-type sensors. Do you have a picture of the sensor wheel on the crank/cam?

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:41 pm
by Kavabanga
This is all, what i have:
Crankshaft position sensor

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:42 pm
by Kavabanga
Camshaft position sensor

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:31 pm
by mobyfab
What year is the engine?

I have the full manuals/schematics if needed.

The trigger sequence is a bit funny, there's an Y shaped CMP sensor and a 12 teeth CKP sensor.

See viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1030

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:37 pm
by russian
mobyfab wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:31 pm
The trigger sequence is a bit funny, there's an Y shaped CMP sensor and a 12 teeth CKP sensor.
With VR sensor and MAX9926 chip 85ms watchdog/timeout we will have an issue here unless this engine has relatively high cranking RPM.

What is typical cranking RPM for bike engines?

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:11 pm
by Kavabanga
mobyfab wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:31 pm
What year is the engine?
The year of engine is 2006

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:23 pm
by mobyfab
russian wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:37 pm
mobyfab wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:31 pm
The trigger sequence is a bit funny, there's an Y shaped CMP sensor and a 12 teeth CKP sensor.
With VR sensor and MAX9926 chip 85ms watchdog/timeout we will have an issue here unless this engine has relatively high cranking RPM.

What is typical cranking RPM for bike engines?
around 600 i'd say... idle is 1300.
Kavabanga wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:11 pm
mobyfab wrote:
Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:31 pm
What year is the engine?
The year of engine is 2006
Service manual for 2003 (same engine)

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:27 pm
by russian
Looks like for MAX9926 the way we currently use it we need about 720 RPM to be happy :( So no sync with OEM setup for us.

Naive question: is it possible to swap VR sensor with a Hall while retaining same exact trigger wheel? Is the nature of Hall anywhere close to the nature of VR? Obviously wiring would be different with an extra wire but that should be relatively easy?

Otherwise we have have to remove one of the 12 tooth to get sync at cranking RPM and have fully sequential mode only about 720 rpm.

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:34 am
by OrchardPerformance
Sorry to jump in a bit late on this but just noticed the suggestion of an innovate WBO2, personal experience has proven what the online reviews say - The innovate stuff is unreliable junk.

After switching to an AEM X-series gauge I wish I had gone with one at the start. The new X series is an awesome bit of kit, the only flaw is poor software for the serial output.

The innovate MTX-l I have complains about sensors that work just fine with my AEM (And other much more expensive systems I have access to), I think the problem is the heater implementation on the Innovate, check the internet for "Innovate E8" and you will see the constant problems they seem to have.
Their rep is so bad now that when I mentioned the issues I have had in the past with the WBO2 on my car a friend guessed it was an innovate just from the issues.

My recommendation would be the AEM X series, its a very small unit, only about 15mm thick but not the most waterproof for a bike, or the 14.7 Spartan, which for a bike might be the best bet. The spartan is like a better Innovate LC1.
https://www.14point7.com/products/spart ... ntroller-2

Regarding the VR sensor - That looks like you might be able to stick a Bosch Hall sensor in the same hole as you cam sensor. What diameter is it and I will check one of the Bosch ones I have kicking about.

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:31 pm
by Kavabanga
OrchardPerformance wrote:
Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:34 am
Regarding the VR sensor - That looks like you might be able to stick a Bosch Hall sensor in the same hole as you cam sensor. What diameter is it and I will check one of the Bosch ones I have kicking about.
Thank you for information! I`ll measure it as soon is possible and tell you what diameter is there

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:47 pm
by Kavabanga
Hi everybody! So, now i have Frankenso in my hands and i`m trying to take signal from Camshaft and crankshaft position sensor, but i have problems.
In this videos i tried to explain my problem and show, what i can see in console, LCD-screen and what leds are blinking in different situations
I dont know what happening and why i cant take signals from sensors
Maybe some clever people can help me? :?





Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:54 pm
by russian
Please turn off everything, take rear ECU cover off and take the picture of circled area of the board, maybe I have forgotten to adjust resistors?

I do not understand electricity enough :( So loose wires are NOT producing noise but sensor on a stopped engine is producing noise? Weird.

Re: Honda CBR600RR fuel injection

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:58 pm
by Kavabanga
russian wrote:
Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:54 pm
Please turn off everything, take rear ECU cover off and take the picture of circled area of the board, maybe I have forgotten to adjust resistors?

I do not understand electricity enough :( So loose wires are NOT producing noise but sensor on a stopped engine is producing noise? Weird.
This is all, what my camera tooked