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L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 10:46 am
by Dron_Gus
L9788 is something like TLE8888 but with 6 channels pre-drivers of ignitor drivers. While only 4 low-side injector channels.

I'm looking for TLE8888-like chip for 6 cylinder motor. Want some integrated solution... but all-in-one solutions are up to 4 cylinders.

Was someone able to get full manual for this chip?

May be someone can point me 6-ch ignitor pre-driver chip? Something like MC33810 or Bosch CK240 but with 6 channel.

Re: microRusEfi

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:40 pm
by DonaldBecker
Ahmad wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:00 pm

Next generation of All-in-one ICs is L9788.
it have Boost_Buck regulator that reduce power consumption and work well with low battery voltages.
It sounds like a wonderful chip.

The info available is a 12 page product brief. Most of that isn't chip specific. The largest section is a generic description of the 100 pin package. There is zero distributor availability, and the availability directly from ST is "call us".

It looks like the marketing side drew up a feature list, block diagram and pinout to pass around and see if there is interest. That's just the sort of chip you don't design in until you have a working sample in hand.

Re: microRusEfi

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:41 pm
by kb1gtt

Re: microRusEfi

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:11 pm
by Ahmad
kb1gtt wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:41 pm
How to get in less than qty 1k?
https://www.st.com/en/automotive-analog-and-power/l9788.html
You are American, not Iranian!
Send a sample request to ST and get that on red carpet ;)

Many years ago, I found a bug in one of the Buck regulators of ST.
I sent an Email to ST.
Answer of ST: you are from Iran and we can not support you! :lol:

Re: microRusEfi

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:53 pm
by kb1gtt
I once spent a week back and forth in email with linear on a particular chip. They eventually said there chip does not uphold the datasheet. They then gave me a different chip and no explanation of what the problem was. There chip was like $4 and after I spent time and effort in that chip it also did not work. Unless you are the customer who developed the chip they do not react well. Basically the designers move on to other projects and tech support goes bad.

Re: microRusEfi

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:17 am
by DonaldBecker
Ahmad wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:11 pm
kb1gtt wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:41 pm
How to get in less than qty 1k?
https://www.st.com/en/automotive-analog-and-power/l9788.html
You are American, not Iranian!
Send a sample request to ST and get that on red carpet ;)
I've occasionally requested samples. It's generally not worth the trouble. You simultaneously need to look like a qualified customer, yet not appealing enough for the salesperson to call you every day.

For a part like this, where no datasheet is available, there is a pretty good chance that it will take a long conversation with a salesperson exploring all of your other potential part purchases before they tell you that it's not in production yet.

And I wonder who would order qnty 1K when there is a 42 week lead time.

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:20 pm
by Ahmad
I like too for 8 cylinders.
L9788 is in standardization phase and not ready for use.
I want to use tow L9779WD-SPI now.
For 6-ch ignitor pre-driver, you can use Bosch CK110.

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:37 am
by AndreyB
Ahmad wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:20 pm
For 6-ch ignitor pre-driver, you can use Bosch CK110.
Where would you buy qty 25 of CK110? Do you have a datasheet?

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:19 am
by Dron_Gus
Ahmad wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:20 pm
I like too for 8 cylinder.
L9788 is in standardization phase and not ready for use.
I want to use tow L9779WD-SPI now.
For 6-ch ignitor pre-driver, you can use Bosch CK110.
For 8 cylinder you can use 2 x MC33810. Each has 4 x ignition pre-driver + 4 x injector driver. And a loooot of diagnostic and protection features.

Seems I'm going to use 2 x MC33810 for 6 cyl.

L9779WD-SPI is quite similar to TLE8888.

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:24 am
by Ahmad
Bosch 30397 = Bosch CK110
I read above datasheet and seems It has simple 16bit SPI function for diag.

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:31 am
by Ahmad
Dron_Gus wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:19 am
For 8 cylinder you can use 2 x MC33810. Each has 4 x ignition pre-driver + 4 x injector driver. And a loooot of diagnostic and protection features.

Seems I'm going to use 2 x MC33810 for 6 cyl.

L9779WD-SPI is quite similar to TLE8888.
L9779WD-SPI has other feathers (SEO, Carnk, CAN, Stepper, ...)

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:40 am
by Dron_Gus
Ahmad wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:31 am
L9779WD-SPI has other feather (SEO, Carnk, CAN, Stepper, ...)
8888 also has CAN.
And 4 x push-pulls (half-bridges) that can be used for stepper.
Not sure about SEO and Crank.

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:54 am
by Ahmad
TLE8888 and L9779 are about identical. My limitation is availability in local stores.

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:00 am
by AndreyB
Ahmad wrote:
Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:24 am
Bosch 30397 = Bosch CK110
I read above datasheet and seems It has simple 16bit SPI function for diag.
you are making a mistake. 16 page product info is not a datasheet, datasheet for such chip wojld be about 100 pages, see tle8888 datasheet as example

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:49 am
by Ahmad
You are true Andrey. That file is not a complete datasheet. But CK110 is not Engine Management device same as TLE8888. It seems to be a simple IGBT driver with some diagnostic.

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:25 am
by DonaldBecker
DonaldBecker wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:40 pm
Ahmad wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:00 pm

Next generation of All-in-one ICs is L9788.
it have Boost_Buck regulator that reduce power consumption and work well with low battery voltages.
It sounds like a wonderful chip.

The info available is a 12 page product brief. Most of that isn't chip specific. The largest section is a generic description of the 100 pin package. There is zero distributor availability, and the availability directly from ST is "call us".

It looks like the marketing side drew up a feature list, block diagram and pinout to pass around and see if there is interest. That's just the sort of chip you don't design in until you have a working sample in hand.
I'm a bit surprised, but as of today both Digikey and Mouser appear to have prototype L9788 stock -- exactly 100 each.

There is still only the basic data brief available, which has far too little information to design around.

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:05 am
by AndreyB
There is also evaluation board https://www.st.com/en/evaluation-tools/eval-l9788.html

en.DM00616997.pdf contains reference schematics

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 2:51 pm
by DonaldBecker
A non-update update.

There is still no datasheet for the L9788, nor for the L9966 (the analog input chip).

Mouser and Digikey both still list their L9788 stock as a 100 pieces, so apparently no one has ordered one yet.

The L9966 remains unavailable.

You might be able to deduce the operation of the L9788 by observing what the development kit software does, but it's challenging enough to work with a documented chip that I doubt anyone would take that approach. Not when the TLE8888 is mostly available, known to work, and is documented.

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 11:05 pm
by Dron_Gus
ST has released datasheet for L9779.
Very similar to TLE8888.
Has integrated 3.3V LDO. This is cool.
14 LS outputs + Relay + 4 push-pulls for stepper + 4 ignition. Less than 8888 has, but all this outputs are on-chip, while 8888 has 6 pre-drivers for external mosfets.

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Tue May 05, 2020 11:51 pm
by texasgdp754
L9779 spi looks very promising. Looked at datasheet few months back. I like it has 3.3 reg integrated.. It's on my to do list to spin a simple pcb to put one on a dev board. It seems to be readily available chip and is 7 us dollars cheaper than tle8888. Maybe somewhere down the line I'll get to it.

I'd also like to play with the l9780 for lambda controller as its compatible with ntk sensors as well as bosch depending on your reference circuit. Only commercial product I've found it to be used in is the new eagle or motohawk ECM.

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 12:37 am
by mck1117
texasgdp754 wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 11:51 pm
L9779 spi looks very promising. Looked at datasheet few months back. Very similar to tle8888. It's on my to do list to spin a simple pcb to put one on a dev board. It seems to be readily available chip. Maybe somewhere down the line .
The trouble with these chips is that they all require VERY specific support to be able to talk to them, but are also very limiting in what output driver options you get.

Besides, the L9779 only lets you control the outputs via SPI, which we don't really want to do for injectors and ignition. It could be made to work, but is very much not compatible with how the rusEfi firmware is structured.
texasgdp754 wrote:
Tue May 05, 2020 11:51 pm

I'd also like to play with the l9780 for lambda controller as its compatible with ntk sensors as well as bosch depending on your reference circuit. Only commercial product I've found it to be used in is the new eagle or motohawk ECM.
Why? We already have support for the CJ125, and it's even relatively easy to control a wideband with a microcontroller and a handful of opamps. The cj125 can drive NTK sensors too.

Re: L9788 - multifunction IC for automotive engine management system

Posted: Wed May 06, 2020 12:51 am
by texasgdp754
there are parallel inputs for outputs 1 thru 7, for ign 1 thru 4 and 1 for pwm of stepper in l9779.looks like the 5 relay drivers are spi control only.

The l9780 main appeal was ntk compatability and us vendor availability. I was unaware cj125 is able to drive ntk sensors. Cj125 is working fine for me with rusefi with lsu 4.9.