Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Hardware inside and outside of the ECU
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AndreyB
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2 up to 8 cylinders

Post by AndreyB »

Looks like we might upgrade from 72 pin connector to 94 connector on NB2 Hellen but for now we have some amazing covers by @kon
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2 up to 8 cylinders

Post by AndreyB »

Now with WBO chip soldered it goes to Canada!

mods so far: one transistor removed
mods to do: flyback diodes
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2 up to 8 cylinders

Post by stefanst »

Mods preserved for posterity
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2 up to 8 cylinders

Post by AndreyB »

A/C switch input works! A/C relay control works!

A/C fan is mixed results to be continued.
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by v3ctors »

I apologize if this isn't the correct place to post, but I'm super interested in this project. I've been all over the various related github pages and haven't been able to find a gerber file for this. I'd like to be able to have one made at JLCPCB, again if possible.

I understand it's still in development but am curious if it would be possible to join in as a test mule. At current, I have a stock 2004 NB2. In the hopefully near future, I'll be adding a turbocharger.

Thanks in advance. Love all the work and collaboration!
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by AndreyB »

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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by deezums »

There's exactly zero chance in hell I'd spend that on an untested dev board needing jumpers and flying diodes with no schematics or board design file, just a blind test mule. Completely and totally insane.

A incredibly stupid and short sighted decision if you're popping out untested, undocumented boards left and right.
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by AndreyB »

deezums wrote:
Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:09 pm
There's exactly zero chance in hell I'd spend that on an untested dev board needing jumpers and flying diodes with no schematics or board design file, just a blind test mule. Completely and totally insane.

A incredibly stupid and short sighted decision if you're popping out untested, undocumented boards left and right.
We are all unique individuals. Some people open https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Hellen72 from the first post and they see the complete schematics some people do not see the full schematic. Some people notice that this board has a documented track of driving the vehicle some people do not. We are very accepting here.
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by BeerMoneyMotorsports »

@deezums

H72 is not untested. There are a few daily driving the board.
Full schematics are posted
There are only a few minor changes that have to be made with jumpers/diodes(that we make before shipping). Thats to be expected when you are developing a board. The next revision, which i will have at MATG will have those issues fixed.
$300 for a board that is plug and play for an nb2, even if its not perfect, is incredibly cheap. Feel free to show me another option in that price that works.

We are very open to input as it is crucial to making a killer product but dont be tactless about your critique. Also try to have accurate information. 🙃
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by deezums »

Schematic =/= layout. Here you are removing individual components which are not labeled on the mask. Either you're dense or you completely miss my complaint.

As of when I posted, the ebay ad still said untested. I guess it's now somewhat tested. Great!

Got any logs of some VVT action yet? Because I haven't seen it and I'm not really keen to look in the half dozen places you guys like to keep everything, especially if this is the direction you all are taking everything.

Otherwise, getting a car like the miata running isn't exactly an accomplishment at this point. To be fair, you all missing flyback diodes that have been known about in the community forever is deeply concerning. From that and what I've seen previously in the last test mule thread that completely died I bet I have an idea on how the VVT looks...
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by AndreyB »

deezums wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:30 pm
As of when I posted, the ebay ad still said untested. I guess it's now somewhat tested. Great!
This was a mistake in the eBay listing - it was about a different, truly untested board.
deezums wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:30 pm
Got any logs of some VVT action yet? Because I haven't seen it and I'm not really keen to look in the half dozen places you guys like to keep everything, especially if this is the direction you all are taking everything.

Otherwise, getting a car like the miata running isn't exactly an accomplishment at this point. To be fair, you all missing flyback diodes that have been known about in the community forever is deeply concerning. From that and what I've seen previously in the last test mule thread that completely died I bet I have an idea on how the VVT looks...
Well, while you bring up a valid point with navigation complexity I would have to request that you soften your tone a bit. Looking at how easily you mix software and hardware concerns I do not see an engineer I see someone else :)

As for the VVT case study looks like that's one of the better documented ones? See https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/wiki/Case-Studies#vvt-control
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by deezums »

I see, only softball underhanded attacks are allowed. I will make a note of it. :D

As for my VVT question, followed the CrazyStriker logs. No VVT target appears to be logged, so there's no idea if it's actually doing what it's supposed to be doing. Why you and Haltech both don't log something so important is really, really frustrating. I do know that these 1309.2 VVT angle degrees logged occasionally are just a tad outside the realm of possibility. What's up with that? Looks better than the last VVT logs I've seen at least.

Further, if I am not mistaken based off the dates that would be a Frankensto or Proteus board, not the rusefimini, nor this new one. And yes, hardware and software work together in this case. Or, am I mistaken the purpose of the VVT flyback diode you added, because it sure looks to be on the VVT control pins to me.
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by AndreyB »

deezums wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:29 pm
\ I do know that these 1309.2 VVT angle degrees logged occasionally are just a tad outside the realm of possibility. What's up with that? Looks better than the last VVT logs I've seen at least.
Please be much more specific. Where exactly do you see 1309.2? I might know the answer but I need more precise input.

https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/2913 created
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by AndreyB »

I am bench testing Hellen72 rev D. With jimstim stimulation I have red injector LED blinking, but with bench test commands I do not, why?

Hellen is powered only by USB

jimstim is powered by +12

there are only three wires between Hellen and jimstim: GND crank cam

blue spark LED does blink if I use bench test command.

i believe that injectors were clicking in real vehicle so I assume that injectors bench command is not broken on the SW side.
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by AndreyB »

On +12v power to hellen injector bench works and LEDs seem to be lighting up brighter comparing with during jimstim.
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by BeerMoneyMotorsports »

I can confirm that is consistent with the Hellens ive tested. No injector led with only USB and ecu stimulation active.
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by AndreyB »

deezums wrote:
Tue Jul 06, 2021 11:29 pm
No VVT target appears to be logged, so there's no idea if it's actually doing what it's supposed to be doing.
Image looks weird since one line is 10*target while other is actual position but it should give you the idea.

Same log shows a glitch with VVT position right in the beginning and RPM glitch at the end, need to address both as my next project.
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by mck1117 »

PID looks overtuned, but it is tracking roughly. Here's with the scales adjusted so they line up correctly (even though one channel is 10x):
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by AndreyB »

In other news Hellen rev D is very happy now!

We have three non-board operator error in the way of board happily running on day one:
1) since rev D requires manual soldering of injector drivers, both boards I've assembled had one of the injector drivers not soldered right
2) MAP breakout on the connector was not set properly until earlier today
3) probably most importantly we had a major software bug affecting all vehicles with symmetrical crank https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/2980

Once these three errors were addressed the board has fired up my test mule right away!
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by AndreyB »

AndreyB wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 1:12 am
Same log shows a glitch with VVT position right in the beginning and RPM glitch at the end, need to address both as my next project.image.png
https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/2987 and https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/issues/2950
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Re: Hellen 72 - Miata NB2

Post by AndreyB »

open question how compatible is this vehicle with mazdaspeed the factory turbo option

https://github.com/rusefi/hellen-NB2-issues/issues/9
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