[help needed] electronic throttle body module

Hardware inside and outside of the ECU
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russian
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electronic throttle body module

Post by russian » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:55 pm

We need a module to control stepper motors like the ones used in idle valves or in electronic throttle bodies.

Until such module is implemented, one can work on the software side using a module like http://www.ebay.com/itm//380764942691

Update: I am totally lost. How many kinds of electronic throttle bodies are out there?
1) regular motor
2) stepper motor (?)
3) solenoid (?)
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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:18 pm

For only a couple more $, you can get one with documentation and a supplier that will probably be around for years to come. http://www.pololu.com/product/1182 It costs less than $10 in qty 1, and doesn't need a heat sink. Also lots of example software can be found for this Pololu board.
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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by russian » Mon Nov 25, 2013 5:24 pm

kb1gtt wrote:For only a couple more $, you can get one with documentation and a supplier that will probably be around for years to come. http://www.pololu.com/product/1182 It costs less than $10 in qty 1, and doesn't need a heat sink. Also lots of example software can be found for this Pololu board.
Pololu makes a great second option as a development-phase board, thanks for the link!

With my modular approach, my idea is to gather all the schematics in the same KiCad format and test them all individually before all this would be combined into one larger board. It is a question of an opinion if we should dive into making the whole ECU boards from scratch, but that's the approach which works for me.
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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:14 pm

KICAD module for that AS4988 board found here. https://github.com/jharvey/Cinch_enclos ... les/pololu
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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by russian » Tue Nov 26, 2013 12:36 am

kb1gtt wrote:KICAD module for that AS4988 board found here. https://github.com/jharvey/Cinch_enclos ... les/pololu
Jared, that was really helpful!

I've started an empty project with just this module to begin with - https://svn.code.sf.net/p/rusefi/code/t ... or_driver/
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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Nov 26, 2013 1:22 am

Cool, one caution with that module, which I need to fix, the via's are a bit to small for that footprint. The pins fit really tight, so just FYI, you'll want to open those holes up a bit.
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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by russian » Tue Nov 26, 2013 2:44 am

kb1gtt wrote:Cool, one caution with that module, which I need to fix, the via's are a bit to small for that footprint. The pins fit really tight, so just FYI, you'll want to open those holes up a bit.
So far I've only used the http://svn.code.sf.net/p/rusefi/code/tr ... _a4988.lib file - the pin-out I guess - and the standard QFN 28 package. With the standard QFN package from KiCad, am I going to be fine?
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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by Sergey89 » Wed Nov 27, 2013 3:03 pm

A4988 can be used to control low current actuators (for example idle valve). Throttle body motor requires much more current (about 6-8 Amp peak).

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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by Mad Max » Wed Nov 27, 2013 8:33 pm

@, don't forget that all late throttle bodies (2002+ to now) use DC-motors with pulse duty control (about 500 Hz base frequency) and feedback from TPS.
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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by russian » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:45 pm

Sergey89 wrote:A4988 can be used to control low current actuators (for example idle valve). Throttle body motor requires much more current (about 6-8 Amp peak).
How about http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/3524219 ? Rumors are VAZ uses this chip :)
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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:24 am

For $11 breakout board found here http://www.pololu.com/product/1212
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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by Sergey89 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:10 am

russian wrote:
Sergey89 wrote:A4988 can be used to control low current actuators (for example idle valve). Throttle body motor requires much more current (about 6-8 Amp peak).
How about http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/3524219 ? Rumors are VAZ uses this chip :)
I think it's ok because it is designed to control the throttle :)

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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by skeeters_keeper » Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:46 pm

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the benefit of an electronic TB? I can see how it would make cruise control easier to implement... but I can't imagine throttle response or reliability would be better than a good old cable, especially since most of the cars I have seen people post about are already cable operated.

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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by russian » Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:18 pm

The benefit is irrelevant if you have a car which already has an electronic TB. More and more cars will have ETB, one of my potential test vehicles (2003 Cooper) has an ETB already.
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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by Mad Max » Tue Dec 03, 2013 7:32 pm

ETB is great thing for any car- stock,drag, drift, rally...
Cable throttle will stay in 20 century...
Because ETB give much stable and accurate response to accelerator position and requested torque.
Especially on powerful turbo engines where engine torque control is at edge of life and death.
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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by kb1gtt » Wed Dec 04, 2013 12:49 am

Generally you'll find the TB is much more open when the computer can do it. Basically your foot pedal is for commanding power. Traditionally you commanded power by letting in more air. There is a complete range of rich and lean conditions that can obtain the same amount of desired power. When you had a cable to your foot, you would allow more air and the to compensate you would have to dump more fuel. However with ETB you can vary both fuel and air. So to get a certain amount of power, the ETB can open the TB, dump more fuel, then after a little bit of time, it can close the TB and vary the fuel ratio, all while your foot is at a single position. By using electronic TB, you can vary the amount of air in the cyl and maintain a more clean burn for the same amount of power. Picture Xtau but for intake air not fuel. I once had a VW with ETB. It basically opened the TB fully all the time, then controlled intake air by turbo controls.
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Re: electronic throttle body module

Post by skeeters_keeper » Wed Dec 04, 2013 1:56 am

ahha, thank you for a good explanation kb1gtt! It makes more sense now... I knew I must have been missing something.

Sorry for the slightly off-topic question, now back to the discussion at hand!

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