[help needed] let's choose an enclosure

Hardware inside and outside of the ECU
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by kb1gtt » Wed Dec 28, 2016 2:50 am

What's the total cost of that connector? Most of these are around $1 per connection. That's a pro-rated cost for the shell, cost for the pins on both sides. Which is commonly $100 for the connector.

There are some options from china which are much lower cost, they include pig tails.
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by russian » Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:20 pm

stefanst wrote:90s Honda Accord boxes are the cheapest on Ebay
Also about 30% extra real estate. If a honda box board is ever created I would be begging for no 'native' chip option but 2 layer.
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by russian » Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:56 pm

Another packaging approach - separate connector pcb and separate ECU pcb, with only wires between.
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by mobyfab » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:39 pm

That's how AEM does it. Except they use headers.

Image
Image

As for finished solution you have this:
http://www.cinch.com/products/modular-i ... enclosure/

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by Dron_Gus » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:28 pm

mobyfab wrote:That's how AEM does it. Except they use headers.

Image
Image

As for finished solution you have this:
http://www.cinch.com/products/modular-i ... enclosure/
Sorry for offtopic. Does anyone know partnumber of this yellow connector? Seems it the same as subaru used for their early imprezas and legacy bg.

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by russian » Wed Apr 05, 2017 12:30 pm

Dron_Gus wrote: Sorry for offtopic. Does anyone know partnumber of this yellow connector? Seems it the same as subaru used for their early imprezas and legacy bg.
http://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title= ... ors#76_pin
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by Dron_Gus » Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:04 pm

Thanks. I should be more attentive. Already bought several from e-bay. Better than unsoldering from dead ecu. :)

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by puff » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:16 am

$24 shipped from eBay? probably not that bad %-)
what about the mating part? and which enclosure is it compatible with? (it would be handy to have all that stuff on the wiki page)

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by Dron_Gus » Thu Apr 06, 2017 6:41 am

puff wrote:$24 shipped from eBay? probably not that bad %-)
what about the mating part? and which enclosure is it compatible with? (it would be handy to have all that stuff on the wiki page)
I'm building RusEFI for exact car, so I have all mating parts in car. :)
Enclosure also from stock subaru ECU like 22611AA810 and many others from early 90's imprezas, foresters, legacys/libertys and so on.
I can update WiKi with at least Impreza JDM and EDM ECU's pinouts and connection diagrams. It was hard to find so it can be also useful for someone outside RusEFI project to.

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by puff » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:20 am

lucky you are! not sure if a used mating connector, cut off from a crashed vehicle, would be of any use - extending all these wires doesn't seem to be a good idea..

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by Dron_Gus » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:20 am

puff wrote:lucky you are! not sure if a used mating connector, cut off from a crashed vehicle, would be of any use - extending all these wires doesn't seem to be a good idea..
Mating parts are available at Mouser. Just need to dig some documentation about exact part numbers. http://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDeli ... 3-178780-6
Looks like mate parts are
26 pins (10 hi-current + 16 low-current) 174516-6
16 pins (all low current) 174514-6
12 pins (all low current) 174913-1
22 pins (6 hi-current + 16 low-current) 174515-6
And terminals 173716-1 or 173716-2 and 173630-1 or 173630-2
All of them are available at Mouser (not sure if it is easy to order to Russia, but I'll try)
So only one problem is PCB connector - 178780-6 - currently available only on eBay from one seller.

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by russian » Thu Apr 06, 2017 1:48 pm

Dron_Gus wrote:So only one problem is PCB connector - 178780-6 - currently available only on eBay from one seller.
I believe this guy sells "old new stock" so once he sells all he has it's over. On the other hand it's easy to remove from a used ECU with a torch.

Added plugs info to the wiki.
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by matt » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:39 pm

are we talking about this connector?

http://my.rs-online.com/web/p/pcb-conne ... 36342D3126

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by Dron_Gus » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:06 pm

matt wrote:are we talking about this connector?

http://my.rs-online.com/web/p/pcb-conne ... 36342D3126
No. 178780-6. But same series.

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by puff » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:12 pm

$24 for a pcb side seems okay. but I guess, the mating part would cost way too much if I order it from Mouser. They are not cheap themselves, plus the cost of delivery makes it not feasible...

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by russian » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:17 pm

puff wrote:They are not cheap themselves, plus the cost of delivery makes it not feasible...
That's why I enjoy used Honda/Mazda/Toyota connectors :)
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by matt » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:35 pm

look like same with subaru connector, but part number not match.

http://my.rs-online.com/web/p/pcb-conne ... s/7201014/

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by russian » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:39 pm

Added alternative part number to the wiki. I believe there were multiple versions of 64 pin connector as well, so that's not a surprise.
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by matt » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:42 pm

found it with the same part number. left 1 only in stock.
http://my.rs-online.com/web/p/pcb-conne ... s/7200979/

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by Dron_Gus » Thu Apr 06, 2017 9:28 pm

puff wrote:$24 for a pcb side seems okay. but I guess, the mating part would cost way too much if I order it from Mouser. They are not cheap themselves, plus the cost of delivery makes it not feasible...
I ordered 5 sets of mating connectors + termonals. Total is about $90. Let's see if they accept my order. (They redirect my order to some representative in Saint-P.)

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by mobyfab » Fri Apr 07, 2017 12:11 am

Often with multilock/molex you have different part numbers for the same connector based on random things like plating so there might be 3-4 compatible references for that one.

Also in this case the pictures are from a civic and a lancer evo, not a subaru. (yellow connector)

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Apr 09, 2017 7:10 pm

In the above pictures, it shows an AEM ECU which uses a replaceable ECU connector. Right now Frankenso allows you to re-map your pin out by using a pile of jumper wires in the W## area of the PCB. As well the ECU connector is set to a particular ECU connector. It would be handy to have an adapter area similar to the AEM ECU such that we can swap out this connection with the real world. I don't like the 0.1inch spaced headers for power circuits, as there are many issues caused by the contact resistance of these connectors. I know the devices like the below exist, but they are very pricey and quite bulky.

https://www.phoenixcontact.com/online/p ... 2-11&tab=1

Is there a low cost high reliably way to allow for an interchangeable ECU connector?
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by Abricos » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:31 pm

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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by mobyfab » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:32 pm

Maybe we can use PCIe or m2 connectors for signals? (slot the adapter board directly in it)
Even an SAS drive connector? http://www.molex.com/molex/products/fam ... connectors
As long as it's widely used it should not be too hard to find cheap ones.

DIN 41612?
Molex has some options for power as well.
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by Abricos » Sun Apr 09, 2017 11:34 pm

same connector and adapter?
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:23 am

I kind of like the adapter harness, but I fear a need to make changes in the field, which wold want crimp tools, quality control, ect.

I think a board does not need to be hot-swap-able. Also I'm not crazy about small contacts carrying large currents, especially when they are inductive currents. The small ohms of the connector cause some funky tank circuits. I'm tempted to think it should be a soldered option to ensure minimal connection resistance.

I see 0R's are not very expensive, but would require some soldering. Perhaps several of these as a kind of bridge between the boards.
https://octopart.com/zr0207-te+connectivity-16078019

Can we find a restocking kit of these bread board wire kits? Per the below link, it appears the 5cm, 8cm and 10cm are common wire lengths.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free-Sh ... 34732637cc

This one is 400pcs Breadboard Jumper Cable 24AWG Black And Red Electronic Wires Tinned 6cm
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400pcs- ... 30eabdd473

I would guess a solder fountain could not be justified with these quantities. See about 3 minutes into this video.
[video][/video]
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by Abricos » Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:38 am


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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by russian » Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:01 am

a resistor is about 3mm in diameter, 4mm to be safe, We would only fit 40 of these on the width of the board - not enough. We need at least a 2 row connector / wiring approach.

So the 0.1 inch header is rated at 3A and you say you do not like combining multiple pins to share load? how much current do we want on the most loaded super GND pin?
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by mobyfab » Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:55 am

I still think pin headers would work fine as long as you share the load.
If AEM still does it, it must be working fine, they've been doing this for 20+ years.

This is the current design for their EMS V2: (found on a supra forum)

https://s10.postimg.org/60ej4dv45/IMG_6 ... mmphzg.jpg
https://s10.postimg.org/ek2ifvsud/IMG_6 ... bjxxdu.jpg

Note that they have coil drivers (so 10A+ ) directly on the "adapter" board but their other outputs (~3A) on the motherboard.
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Re: let's choose an enclosure

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:36 am

You can install every other resistor, then install the remaining resistors such that you stagger the resistors. AKA some touch the PCB others are stacked on top of the resistors that are touching the PCB. The key issue I see with this is the assembly labor. That will likely be more costly than what ever jumper device is chosen.

They also make arrays like this which might help with the assembly labor.
http://datasheet.octopart.com/4116R-1-1 ... 047067.pdf

I don't know the exact layout of that picture, but it appears they put the sensitive high impedance analog between the high speed digital and high frequency power switch mode power supply. It appears that unintentional radiators are likely to couple into the analog circuits on that PCB. Also that pile of apparent power transistors is likely a bit weak in thermal design. Even if each of those transistors are only making a like 1mW of energy, those devices in the middle of the pack are likely to get really hot. If they added some thermal via's it would allow the entire array of components to get much hotter before you ran into issues. I'm not particular impressed with that layout, but perhaps I'm just being too critical. Perhaps my concerns are overly conservative from the design standpoint.
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