[help needed] universal ECU connector?

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universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Sun Feb 09, 2014 4:54 pm

While the perfect scenario is when one can purchase a header to match his stock ECU connector, sometimes this would not be possible - and sometimes this is simply not needed.

So, how about we pick some universal ECU connector?

I have some random TE sealed connector and it makes me scared - I have to figure out the pin separately, I might need a special crimping tool :( What is the DIY-friendly option for both the ECU and harness sides?

Let's say we have 6 injectors + couple of solenoids + grounds so say 10-20 2A to 10A wires, and probably another 30 for all kinds of sensors and lower currents?
While price is important, at this point the main thing is DIY-friendliness, and the male connector - the one on the harness - poses this question to me.
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:12 pm

What are the parameters for the connector? How many pins, what current, does it need to be weather tight? What about cost?
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:15 pm

kb1gtt wrote:What are the parameters for the connector?
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:32 pm

One of my initial reaction is to say CPC as they have lots of options. However they are often a bit pricey. Here's one half of a reasonably low cost CPC for about $1 per pin, the other half of this connector would cost about the same, for a total cost per pin of about $2 per pin. http://octopart.com/796902-1-te+connect ... mp-1377951

I then searched by starting on Octopart's home page, then clicked the "connector" category and worked my way down to automotive. http://octopart.com/partsearch#!?filter ... 508609699d which points you to some interesting Delphi connectors. Again be careful about price, as it can cost you more to connect it than to build the assembled board.

Also mouser has some options to filter via automotive. http://www.mouser.com/Connectors/Automo ... _/N-1ehb5/

Ultimately you really do need to consider costs very closely as I've seen total price per pin to range from as low as $.10 per pin, to as much as $3 per pin.

These Mate-n-lock connectors are reasonably low cost, no weather seal though. http://octopart.com/3-794618-8-te+conne ... amp-256953
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by blundar » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:03 am

I'm relatively fond of the Molex MX123. They're the OEM connector on the GM E38/E67 (and maybe more?) controllers so the volume is there for them to be relatively inexpensive.

i.e.
http://www.findchips.com/search/0313862001 $4.75 PCB header
http://www.findchips.com/search/0345760703 $14 terminal
5cents/pin on a roll of 5000

The Molex MX150 is also excellent in terms of price/performance if you don't need high density. I think they go up to 16 or 20 pins per shell.

I've also used the AMP 1.0mm superseal http://www.te.com/catalog/feat/en/c/200 ... 0576,10238
and AMPSEAL http://www.te.com/catalog/feat/en/c/108 ... 0576,10238

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:12 am

I think you would also need to buy the individual pins separately and it is the part of crimping these pins on the wires which scared me :( So I wonder if some connectors are easier to assemble - including the part where you put the pin on the wire. Has anyone actually done that in a DIY environment?
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:42 am

For that MX123, I see the pricing like this for low qty. Buying $250 worth of pins to get the unit cost down to $2.80 doesn't seem good for a low qty order. So for pricing of a low qty order lets look at it like this.

Pin found here http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/2405594 $.19*56=$10.64
Harness shell found here http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/3044541 $22.59
PCB connector found here http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mol ... N7SA%3d%3d $15.33
crimp tool found here http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/e ... ND/3044653 $486
shipping about $30.

For qty 1 pricing, I'll ignore shipping and the crimp tool. I see min costs like this pins $10.64 + shell $22.59 + PCB conn $15.33 = $48.56 total cost. Then divide by 56 pins and you get $.87 per pin.

Is there an option for gold plating on the PCB side of the connector? Often when you dig into these OEM TIN plated connectors you find they are only rated for 2 or 3 insertions. Also what about probing? I see that this connector when probed can get damaged. Is there a connector that allows some kind of probing with out damage? Perhaps also worth a note when you run it's 11 amp rating, with the 8mOHM contact resistance, I see it would dissipate about 1 watt per pin. I'm assuming if the common wire is dumping around 11 amps, that also means 11 amps is coming in somewhere. So there would be 2 watts of power this connector would have to dissipate and tolerate. I don't know what kind of C/W ratio to expect from this connector, so I don't know how hot that might make things.

All in all, the price is not bad and it has a great many features that are highly desirable. I'd say the MX123 series is a reasonably good option. However as always, I'm curious if we can do better.
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:34 am

Perhaps PLC and industrial stuff could work well. Here's a 24 pin 24AWG 2m long harness for $20.

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Sho ... L-CBL24-2P
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:39 am

That's a $1 per pin of 24AWG, 24AWG would not work for GND right?

But the whole idea of getting some pre-assembled harness is just AMAZING! Our Chinese friends should have some pre-assembled cables which we can make work for us.

Once again, great idea!
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Re: universal ECU connectorhttp://klemma505.ru/c1_0049.htm

Post by puff » Fri Feb 28, 2014 7:26 am

these have bosch cross numbers
http://klemma505.ru/c1_0049.htm

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:57 am

Can we find someone who will make use that connector and make a harness with a 10 ft long wire lead? The issue with the connector is that most people don't have the crimp tools, or skill set to make a proper crimp to make that connector work. It would be really handy if we can find someone that will make it into a harness for our needs.
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Re: universal ECU connectorhttp://klemma505.ru/c1_0049.htm

Post by russian » Fri Feb 28, 2014 12:45 pm

puff wrote:these have bosch cross numbers
http://klemma505.ru/c1_0049.htm
Nice! Do they sell them some harness already?
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by puff » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:13 pm

the above mentioned crimping tool is pretty much expensive. have you tried doing it yourself? i guess it's not any harder than soldering smd components (haven't tried though)
the ready-made harness (the same site) is around 100usd (http://klemma505.ru/c1_0026.htm)
personally, i'd better get that scart connector, get the wires (~30 usd per 20pcsx10m), and an iron :-)

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by puff » Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:17 pm

btw, those metal thingies (with codes!)
http://klemma505.ru/c1_0048.htm

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by sketchman » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:57 pm


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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:59 pm

I think that's a harness-to-harness connector, like from wires to wires. Which should work if you solder some wires to the PCB :)
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by sketchman » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:13 pm

That's my plan. :)

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by Sudo » Wed Apr 02, 2014 6:03 pm

I am assuming we are looking for a DIY approach and not a product. If thats the case, what about using something cheap and readily available like the MiniFit Jr. Then find a cheap way to seal it? Like dipping it in silicone or something.


Another thought, since you already have TE 176122-6. Why not get some cheap connectors harness made? If those hard working folks in china can sell these for $26.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/OBD2A-to-OBD1-E ... e5&vxp=mtr

I bet having a custom made pigtail version should be even cheaper in quantity since we don't need to large connetor, just the 3 smaller in pig tail form. Or just buy that and chop it.

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Thu Apr 03, 2014 2:40 am

Hmmm, where to find a harness pig tail. I'm sure there have to be options, but I don't know where or who. Any suggestions on who makes harnesses?
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by Sudo » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:25 am

Anyone speaks chinese? lol

I'll try to dig more too. But I think we should be able to track down the people who make those OBD2 to OBD1 conversion harness sold on ebay.

Check this out: $17 shipped.
http://www.banggood.com/Auto-OBD2A-To-O ... 7AodzHcAEQ

The price is almost ridiculous. Now I am wondering if they are knockoffs connectors that will break on first insertion??? :shock:

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Thu Apr 03, 2014 12:57 pm

@ where is your ECU located? I wonder if having the ECU under the hood would require a proper waterproof connector.

Still, I would really appreciate if you can get in touch with these harness guys. For example we might be interested in a nicer harness extension cord - in the civic terms it would be "civicOBD2 to civicOBD2", just a much longer one - like ft, not inches.
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Apr 06, 2014 11:16 am

This caught my eye, looks like they can work around qty 100.

http://au.alibaba.com/product/155081973 ... rness.html
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:46 pm

kb1gtt wrote:This caught my eye, looks like they can work around qty 100.

http://au.alibaba.com/product/155081973 ... rness.html
That's a cool link!
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by Sudo » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:12 pm

kb1gtt wrote:This caught my eye, looks like they can work around qty 100.

http://au.alibaba.com/product/155081973 ... rness.html
Thats the same person I tried to contact. They have all different connectors as well. Never heard back. :?

http://kinkong.en.alibaba.com/productgr ... rness.html

I think perhaps we should create specs and drawings first and contact them via rusefi.com. I believe they can make any harness you want. They have all of the connectors we need as well. They probably filtered my email as spam. :( We need someone who can draft an harness using CAD or some sort. Otherwise, I doubt we will get their attention.

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Apr 06, 2014 2:40 pm

I can do that CAD and MFG inquiry kind of stuff. I see they have some nice alum cases as well. I think the key is that we need to a serious order around qty 100, which is a fair pile of $.

What connector(s) should we consider from them?
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:13 pm

We are nowhere, simply nowhere close to a qty 100 :(

@ what is your vehicle - what is your stock connector?
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by Sudo » Sun Apr 06, 2014 3:56 pm

@russian, I won't even bother with my CB600F connector and I will most likely redo the whole harness. But I am more interested in the connector you already have, which is the TE 176122-6 (Honda OBD1 ECU). I also have a spare Honda OBD1 ECU that I will be using for my tests. I don't mind the OBD2 that you suggested as well. They have those too: http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?fsb ... or+kinkong


@kb1gtt, I would consider choosing the most popular ECU connector and Hondas are still the most popular for tuning. I would go as far as making them have similar pinouts. That's why I particularly like the TE 176122-6. Unless you think we need more than 64 pins. But that may just be me. :| But do consider the most popular platform and make it compatible to it. It is the best way to get more users as well.


Anyways, here are the mates for Cap Housing, 64 Position 176122-6 ECU Connector
Housing, 16 Position 178795-1
Housing, 22 Position 178798-1
Housing, 26 Position 178801-1


I just browsed more and found they have Motec style connectors as well. That would actually be my first choice since they are waterproof. A motec style pin tail would be AWESOME!
http://kinkong.en.alibaba.com/search/pr ... tecHaltech

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:29 pm

I think the 64p connector is the past and http://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=208 is the now. On the one hand, it's waterproof - the connectors have the soft rubber seal. At my junk yard a piece of harness with a 81 pin connector is 0.99$ - if you buy two sets you can easily move the extra pins from one to another. I will post some more pictures soon.
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by puff » Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:35 pm

Probably, I'll be using MIKAS case with the original connector, but I can't find any part numbers for the other part of this connector
here's probably the same one as mine...
Image
they sell the whole set of harness for load of money, and there are no bare connectors… ;-(

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by sturovo » Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:02 am

Puff, I have connected similar pins using regular auto wire connectors. The connections are strong, typically as good or better than the original ones. Once the loom gets taped together and secured in position it performs like a plug. If you need the opposite type connection then it should be possible to use male spades can be used instead of female ones. This set up has worked on my car for a a few years with no issues.
Image

A simple and inexpensive way to connect would be to use a 24 pin ATX male to female extension cable. (These cables typically cost < 5$.)
Image

Cut this in half, adapt the loom side with spade connectors and solder the other side to your controller. If you need more connections then add another plug.

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