[help needed] universal ECU connector?

Hardware inside and outside of the ECU
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Thu May 01, 2014 3:32 pm

Another option: http://www.cinch.com/products/modular-i ... -enclosure
That's actually a connector integrated with a sealed enclosure, these go up to 60 pins.

For example 5810160031 is abour $30 on Mouser
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Thu May 01, 2014 8:46 pm

I seem to recall the ME does not need a special tool to open, while the SE an LE do, or something like that. Any how, beware you may need a special tool to open the case.
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Thu May 08, 2014 2:43 pm

Got a quote for the 121 pin connector used by Bosch from http://en.yn-china.com/ - Unit price: 4.5USD but MOQ/MPQ: 100pcs

A $4.5 connector and a $5 junk yard shell would be a very sweet combo, but I cannot really commit to 100pcs :(
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by puff » Thu May 08, 2014 5:23 pm

somewhat 4500 usd? sounds like its time to launch your own tuning parts online store? :-)

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Thu May 08, 2014 5:24 pm

@ is using some special kind of math? :)
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by puff » Thu May 08, 2014 7:45 pm

fck! just opened a calculator to recheck ;-)

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case

Post by jfive » Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:33 am

One reason I like the ford 60 pin is that ford wiring harnesses are very well built as far as thickness of wire and using good insulation. If looking for a vehicle at the junk yard to steal a harness and connector, there are tons of fords in the junkyards to do so. One manufacture I would never suggest is VW. Worst wires in the world for cracking due to inferior plastic sheathing. I still think the best thing is to try and piece together the best of all manufactures and have a universal setup. It seams most of the engines at this time are 4 cyl with efi and spark. With many the spark is an issue as there are so many types and I think there is a reason many choose 36 and 1 wheel, or 12 and 1 or 16 and 1, or 58 and 2 and 36 and 2 wheels with VR or hall sensors. I think there is a good reason why megasquirt was a success with universal at first and PNP later. One option that I think would be worth looking at is military connectors. Although the one I know of is better for going through the firewall. http://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partg ... start/7108

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case

Post by puff » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:27 am

I'd love to see those 25+ contacts amphenol things assembled with proper gauge wires… or, better a tutorial on soldering wires and assembling those connectors

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case

Post by puff » Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:32 am

just googled it. goess, it should be similar to this.. :D

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case

Post by kb1gtt » Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:35 am

Things I like about CPC connectors include, common drill or hole saw to make firewall or enclosure openings, can be obtained with or with out liquid sealing options, can be solder cup with common assembly tools, or crimp if you have the tools, circle holes are optimal for air planes in terms of reliability and low weight.

Things I don't like about CPC's include the cost, they are very expensive compared to other connectors, and when dealing with 100+ pins you need multiple connectors, you can't make good PCB's with one connector as you end up with many signals cramped into a small area. This causes electrical issues.

Things I like about Ford connectors is that you can find them on the side of the road. After all it's Found On Road Dead isn't it :) I agree that using an OEM harness can be a good idea as it allows a low cost place to source used harnesses. However I'd like to find new harnesses some where. I've seen some that can be purchased but haven't been fully happy about what I've found. Can we find a source for a low cost good quality new harness some where?
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by jfive » Tue Oct 14, 2014 7:29 am


I like this video!

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Oct 14, 2014 9:10 am

Can we find a place that has a CPC pre-made harness? If we can find a source of a pre-made CPC harness, I would likely spin a board that uses it.
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by fatrbt » Tue Feb 17, 2015 2:32 pm

Found a couple of good options:
Image

56pin - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/56pin-ad ... dVersion=1
24pin(using pair) - http://www.aliexpress.com/item/24pin-ca ... dVersion=1

Lowcost, waterproof,small drawback - their size.

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:01 pm

There are interesting options, but what scares me a lot about these connectors is crimping the wire pin terminals on the female side. On www.taobao.com they have some options with a wired female side, but taobao is a pain by itself :(
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:59 pm

Nice options. Do you know a way to the harness side for this? Can they be found in a salvage yard, or purchased some where?
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by mivaol » Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:59 pm

Сорри что не слежу за темой так как с январскими разъемами вроде не дорогие были как говорил MAXI ?
(Транслит ГУГЛ)Sorry that do not follow the theme since the January connectors such as the roads were not told MAXI?

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by fatrbt » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:11 am

kb1gtt wrote:Nice options. Do you know a way to the harness side for this? Can they be found in a salvage yard, or purchased some where?
Do you mean this part?
Image
It is contained in the lot (see links), all you need is to buy female pins.
Image

female(harness) side: DJ7056-1.5-21
mail(pcb) side: DJ7056-1.5-11
pins fo female(harness) side: DJ627-1.5A

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:42 am

Yes that part, but with wires installed. Is that available such that I don't need to crimp a large pile of wires, and I don't need to purchase a crimp tool. AKA a $200 crimp tool doesn't make that a very cost effective connector for me in qty 1.
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by fatrbt » Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:05 am

kb1gtt wrote:Yes that part, but with wires installed. Is that available such that I don't need to crimp a large pile of wires, and I don't need to purchase a crimp tool. AKA a $200 crimp tool doesn't make that a very cost effective connector for me in qty 1.
200$ is to many, you right, in russia we don't use crimping tool, all doing by hands :)
So i don't see the difference between twisted wires or hand crimp...
A large bonus from hand crimp - strong connection.

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:59 pm

If I believe this web page http://www.connector-terminal.com/DJ621 ... minal.html, the crimp tool is the Delphi Metripack. From this page http://www.delcity.net/store/Metri-Pack ... gQodgTgAdA I would need the $138.87 crimp tool, and $6.47 pin removal tool. But would probably also need the additional $126.04 crimp tool.
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by chingon » Sun May 31, 2015 4:21 pm

kb1gtt wrote:Yes that part, but with wires installed. Is that available such that I don't need to crimp a large pile of wires, and I don't need to purchase a crimp tool. AKA a $200 crimp tool doesn't make that a very cost effective connector for me in qty 1.
I use this style of crimp tool:
http://www.amazon.com/Engineer-PA-09-Mi ... rimp+japan

and achieve near-OEM results. It's what I had to use when working as a tech. for an R&D facility + solder. Now, soldering on top may not be advisable as the joint may strain harden...but we never got a harness back when both methods were applied.

Personally, I've been looking at the LADD DRC connectors that use a deutsch barrel type, bulky but it's a personal project. There's an inexpensive crimp tool made in china, and are widely used on caterpillars. Pretty skill-less method
http://www.mouser.in/Search/ProductDeta ... INSA%3d%3d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-Way-Indent-Cr ... 3f49a2629f

don't know how vems stacks up in this price range:
http://www.vems.us/node/11

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/ms3p ... p-543.html <heck, people may be more willing to give rusefi a try if they don't have to spend twice :lol:

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by russian » Sun May 31, 2015 10:02 pm

That's some scary prices :(
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by chingon » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:10 am

Last edited by chingon on Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:48 am

I recently got to learn that Matenlok connectors have a splash proof option. See datasheet found here http://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDeli ... .pdf%7FN-A

Basic overview found here http://www.digikey.com/Web%20Export/Sup ... directed=1

From an industrial wiring stand point, these Matenloks are very common. I'm sure you've seen them on your home appliances. They have a great many features and are reasonably low cost in low qty. Picture the option of buying something on the low cost, then upgrading it to water resistant later on down the line. I see that as low cost to start, then feature rich once you have hit certain mile stones.

About crimped connectors, generally you can't get solder to flow through what I consider a good connection. I understand many OEM's make less then perfect connections which per OEM specs can flow solder. However those connections generally require larger crimp ferrules and often have shorter life spans. Keep an eye on the connection ohms after fatigue. The crimps I consider good generally cold weld, which doesn't allow gas to pass let alone liquids like solder. The best you can hope for is to get a blob of solder around the connection, but not in the crimps. Most crimps even for an 18awg wire should handle more than a 70lb (31kg) wire pull test with out damage to the crimped area. Generally a crimp that can flow solder will fail at less then a 50lb tug test. The variation in tug testing is a direct reflection of the length of time the connection will remain good.
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by chingon » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:54 am

kb1gtt wrote:I recently got to learn that Matenlok connectors have a splash proof option. See datasheet found here http://www.te.com/commerce/DocumentDeli ... .pdf%7FN-A

Basic overview found here http://www.digikey.com/Web%20Export/Sup ... directed=1

From an industrial wiring stand point, these Matenloks are very common. I'm sure you've seen them on your home appliances. They have a great many features and are reasonably low cost in low qty. Picture the option of buying something on the low cost, then upgrading it to water resistant later on down the line. I see that as low cost to start, then feature rich once you have hit certain mile stones.

About crimped connectors, generally you can't get solder to flow through what I consider a good connection. I understand many OEM's make less then perfect connections which per OEM specs can flow solder. However those connections generally require larger crimp ferrules and often have shorter life spans. Keep an eye on the connection ohms after fatigue. The crimps I consider good generally cold weld, which doesn't allow gas to pass let alone liquids like solder. The best you can hope for is to get a blob of solder around the connection, but not in the crimps. Most crimps even for an 18awg wire should handle more than a 70lb (31kg) wire pull test with out damage to the crimped area. Generally a crimp that can flow solder will fail at less then a 50lb tug test. The variation in tug testing is a direct reflection of the length of time the connection will remain good.
I'm not sure if these automotive style connectors are meant to cold weld when crimped (like you would see with a die type hydraulic high amp crimp). I can tell you from experience all the ones we ever did always soaked the solder deep into the fibers and pretty sure the crimp walls as well. But then again, maybe that's why we were soldering, because our crimps would not pass the pull test w/o solder on them. Harnesses were beat on more than an everyday user would in real life, but fatigue life was never a concern (r&d environment).

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:41 am

Pull test notes found here http://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/ats/TM-638000029.pdf
UL486A_pull_test.PNG
UL486A_pull_test.PNG (42.08 KiB) Viewed 5505 times
UL-310 also specifies the same values. I seem to recall there is another commonly used spec that's about 20% more than those. I want to say that was a MIL spec or perhaps it was an IEC spec. I've forgotten where that other spec was. Any how, I would consider those to be a min pull spec.
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by DaWaN » Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:58 pm

I never built many wiring harnesses, but what I remember from assembling Molex Mini-Fit and Molex Micro-Fit cables is that crimping usually ends up stronger than the cable itself.
So before building a harness I would always test one type of wire together with one contact in the following manner:
-Crimp it with the official Molex tool and the right tool hole (Molex crimp tools come with multiple AWG 'openings').
-Cut the cable +/- 1.0 meter from the contact
-Put the contact in the vice
-Pull as hard as possible on the cable

Any proper crimp would cause the cable to split somewhere around the middle of the cable: this showed the strength of the crimp.

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:04 am

I saw a video where a fellow hung it from the ceiling, then put on weights until it failed. A 5 gallon bucket will get you 40lbs. I agree it's common a good crimp will fail the wire before the crimp lets loose. Also the failures are typically caused by low the connection exhibiting low resistances around .1 to .01 ohms. Remember 10A through .1ohms is 10watt. The plastic shell is typically a decent thermal insulator, so the connector can overheat very easily, and fire can result.

I once had a customer demand a certain Chinese non insulated faston. The generic faston had no official crimp tool. So I use the TE faston specs noted above and made our process uphold those requirements. Then I used a variety of official crimp tools from AMP, TE, Molex and Wago, until we got similar results. We eventually found a crimper that upheld the posted pull test forces, but we had 7 failure before we got there. Those other 7 crimps appeared like good crimps, but they were of a sub quality. All the crimp tools we tried were for similar non insulated style barrel crimp connectors. Seeing this variety of crimp quality was interesting and not expected.
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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by chingon » Tue Jun 02, 2015 4:12 am

I just realized, we're discussing pull force at the crimp, but are willing to compromise by soldering a pigtail to a length of wire. Now I don't doubt the pull strength of a good solder joint, but fatigue should be just a big an issue. If that is the case, then wouldn't it make sense to crimp+solder as I've suggested? Should pass the pull test and fatigue can be minimized by flowing the solder away from the crimp end.

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Re: universal ECU connector?

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:50 am

The long term goal would be to have a long enough pigtail that you don't have to do the soldering thing. We have been scavenging to keep costs low. I agree the solder joints on a scavenged pigtail are a weak point, but for a $100-ish savings it's something we have been doing. Beyond the mechanical fatigue, the remaining flux often left after soldering is a common issue. The solder flux is corrosive, that's what makes it work as flux. If it doesn't get washed away, it tends to corrode the wire, but does it slowly often more than a year to corrode. It would be nice if we can find a cost effective method of not soldering the harness.
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