[info] Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Hardware inside and outside of the ECU
gptech2444
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by gptech2444 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:13 am

russian wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:52 pm
gptech2444 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:02 pm
russian wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:57 pm
You just set it as 36-1 cam sensor, no tricks needed here
Ok,I needed to know that for sure before I went ahead with wiring it in as this would stop me dead.

Also, I can't see the VVT output pin, and how do I calibrate the Voltage?
To calibrate VBatt you adjust battery divider so that VBatt matches your multimeter reading https://github.com/rusefi/rusefi/blob/m ... attery.png

VVT output means you have VVT sensor and VVT, do you have VVT sensor and VVT? See https://rusefi.com/wiki/index.php?title ... ftware:VVT
Why do I need a VVT sensor? I just need to turn on the cam solenoid at a certain RPM.

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:16 am

I am thinking to shoot a plug&play video of Frankenso on the first generation Miata and I wonder if it's time to get friendlier with mpx4250ap MAP sensor - this would reduce cutting & splicing wires for Miata tenfold.

mpx4250ap fits under 12mm LCD standoffs. I've mounted mine 0.1" too high - if you move it one position down the top mount hole would align with existing small hole. We need at least the sensor outline on the board and maybe mounting holes and maybe GND and 5v traces?
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Fri Aug 31, 2018 12:05 pm

Perhaps the below for R0.6. I think it's beneficial if the hose could leave the out the same side as the harness connector.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Sat Sep 01, 2018 3:39 pm

Vertical hose sounds tempting but there are issues: we have the vertical fuse to go around and the case in that corner is thick and harder to drill. We can enlarge one of the existing mounting holes but would be weird route for the hose. Also it could be a useful mounting hole.

Maybe angled placement higher so that I can reusing existing side mount hole which is probably less useful? I am not sure, let me install this prototype and collect more data I guess.

Do they sell plastic 90 degree bends for vacuum lines?
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Sat Sep 01, 2018 11:49 pm

This extra threaded holes could be useful. I wonder if threaded rod with a hole down the center could be found. You basically can use as small of a hose as you can get.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:43 pm

1/16" tube with 3/16" (0.1875in 4.7mm) hole bulk head barbed tube adapter for $8

https://www.mcmaster.com/#5058k115/=1ef8x7t
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:06 pm

kb1gtt wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 12:43 pm
1/16" tube with 3/16" (0.1875in 4.7mm) hole bulk head barbed tube adapter for $8

https://www.mcmaster.com/#5058k115/=1ef8x7t
I do not get the whole picture yet
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by Abricos » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:31 pm

Pipe ID 6 8 10 12 14 16mm Hose Barb Bulkhead Brass Barbed Tube Pipe Fitting Coupler Connector Adapter For Fuel Gas Water Copper
http://s.aliexpress.com/rUbUNjMV?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by Abricos » Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:33 pm

4mm OD to M6 to 3mm OD Plastic Pagoda Barbed Bulkhead Union Hose Connector Pipe Fitting Tube Joint for Garden
http://s.aliexpress.com/amemia2Y?fromSns=Copy to Clipboard
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Mon Sep 03, 2018 1:18 am

Put the bulk head in anywhere you want. Then run a short pipe internal. This means you can mount the MAP in any position as you'll have a short pipe from the inside to the outside.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by NBytevenom » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:14 pm

gptech2444 wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:27 am
Ok, cool.

How do we determine how the inputs and outputs are set? Is this all done through tunerstudio?

A youtube of how this is done would be great time saver.
edit;4-6-18
Ok, not so cool. I just hooked up tunerstudio. And this is diabolical.
rusefi pinout.PNG
Let's take injector 1 for example. It uses PB7, so we have to look at the schematic to get where PB7 goes, it's inj-12, which is low-1a-12, then we have to look at the pin out, which looks like it lines up with W63 or is it W64?

Next one is battery voltage, I have 13.1v going into it from the PS, but tunerstudio says it's 11.7v.
So the battery voltage doesn't get it's voltage from the main input?
I don't have the option for CAM speed trigger input, this I need. It's an option on speeduino and megasquirt.
https://goo.gl/gFuXco

I made a table for my Miata NB2B installation. Part of this was converting pin to Wxx to the stock 64 pin connector. I've validated a few things on it, but can't be sure until it is in the car. It's a start though, hopefully helpful!

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by OrchardPerformance » Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:36 pm

It might be worth taking a look in your local auto parts store, we have one big chain here that sells "screen washer connectors" which is a multi pack of different size plastic hose joiners, ideal for vacuum lines as well as washer hoses. ;)

I could always whip up a 3d printer file for a custom shaped hose adapter that could be printed as an inner and outer part that could be slipped through a hole in the case and glued in position. Ideally with a recessed socket at the join so it would seal when glued.
Would just need to know the dimensions you need and then people could print them for themselves.

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:56 am

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:44 am

Hmmm, you should put up a warning on something like that. Suggested warning below.

Warning, this post may cause you to hump your computer. It will likely make you so excited that you will do things that you would not normally do. So take precautions and plan according. It's probably best to read this post when the kids are not in the room.

:)
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:38 pm

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by puff » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:08 pm

WE DO LOVE IT!!!
Is there a chance to have a similar scheme for prometheus? ;-)

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by andreika » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:39 pm

puff wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:08 pm
Is there a chance to have a similar scheme for prometheus? ;-)
(Offtopic) Currently we have only this map:
https://rawgit.com/andreika-git/prometh ... s-map.html
Still, it's not so bad after all...

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by puff » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:46 pm

indeed! thx!

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:34 am

174) Consider adding the low cost current limiting circuit noted by Jerri Ellsworth at this video.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by mck1117 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:31 am

I found a bug in Frankenso's analog inputs. The RC filter claims to be a 100 ohm resistor, with a 1, 0.1, or 0.01uF cap, giving a bandwidth of approximately 1khz, 10khz, or 100khz respectively. However, there's also a 10k resistor in series (before the diodes), so those bandwidths are really 1% of the desired values. Yeah, they're 10hz, 100hz, and 1khz.

Confirmed with ltspice:
Image
This is from the channels that say it should be a 100khz knee, but is closer to 1500hz.

Here's a solution: The LPF should be on the output of the opamp, not the input. We should leave a decoupling cap on the input, but move the filter stage to the output of the opamp, using the output divider.

(ignore the extra resistor divider pointing upward, that was to check no-filter performance)
Image

Here are the -3dB bandwidth options possible by exchanging the filter cap (C2) in this new circuit:

omit = 32khz
10n = 20khz
100n = 3.2khz
1u = 320hz

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:06 am

Great feedback and thanks for pointing it out. Also great post, content with low levels of fluff.

Do we need more than 1kHz? I'm tempted to update the schematic, and leave the components. Most automotive analog signals are much slower than 1kHz.

I'm tempted to change the note to something like the below.
low pass filter knee at 1kHz or 10Hz with 10k series resistor.
low pass filter knee at 10kHz or 100Hz with 10k series resistor.
low pass filter knee at 100kHz or 1kHz with 10k series resistor.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by Rhinoman » Fri Dec 21, 2018 1:12 pm

kb1gtt wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 11:06 am
Do we need more than 1kHz? I'm tempted to update the schematic, and leave the components. Most automotive analog signals are much slower than 1kHz.
Whats the analogue sample rate?

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:16 pm

I recall it varies. I forget the exact rates. I believe we vary between 100mS to 10mS.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by Rhinoman » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:14 pm

Well then there is no point filtering at 1khz - you'll just get aliasing of out of band frequencies.

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:07 am

The 1kHz is only on the altCAM and altCRANK inputs. Those can be used as alternative hall effects inputs, and have much higher cut off's. I think most folks use the MAX chip for hall inputs, but I also believe a couple folks have saved some $ and not used the max chip, using these alternative options instead. I recall they had some problems with the cut off and they may have changed the 10k to something else.

I'm a bit ignorant about the low level ADC hardware on this chip. I understand Chibios has a tick time which is used to collect an ADC reading. It is likely that the ADC is being done by some hardware at a much higher frequency, perhaps even filtered some how. Then Chibios simply grabs a result every so often. I really don't know the nitty gritty details about how Chibios is doing the ADC. I understand the concerns about anti-aliasing distortions (also known as fold back, or wrap around). I have not seen such inducted errors in the posted log files, so I don't think we are seeing it. Some day I should better learn the details how Chibios is doing the ADC, such that I know when potential problems could arise. So far I've not seen problems, so I haven't looked into it further.
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by mck1117 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:16 am

Fast ADC (MAP, MAF, TPS, Knock) is sampled at 10khz.
Slow ADC (everything else) at 20hz.

I believe this is how the ADCs work: a timer triggers each ADC, which takes a sample, then triggers an interrupt which is bubbled down to rusEfi. The ADCs can go up to around 1mhz, I think, but that's massive overkill for us, and impossible unless you have it DMA results in to a buffer.

As for actual bandwidth, the slow sensors (temperatures, battery voltage, etc) have analog bandwidths on the order of a few hz, so tens of hz is reasonable for both filter and sampling. The fast sensors could have mechanical and electrical bandwidths up around 1-2 khz, so I think a few khz analog and 10khz digital is a pretty sensible place to be.

So, on second thought, maybe the existing filter is totally fine, and should be left as is (but fix the notes on the schematic). The slow inputs have a ~15hz filter, and fast inputs have a ~1.5khz filter, both of which are reasonable.

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by mck1117 » Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:19 am

Oh and I cracked open my factory gen3 LS ecu to see what GM/Delphi did, and the cam/crank inputs on it have a 470 ohm series resistor, <1nf decoupling cap to ground, then directly in to a chip which is presumably integrated protection diodes/schmitt trigger/etc. The analog inputs have a 10-30k series resistor, similar 1nf cap, then disappear in to an internal layer :(.

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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:20 pm

174) D20 D19 D22 silkscreen seems to be inaccurate - D20 really means D19 etc?
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by kb1gtt » Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:34 pm

I think the issue is with the schematic. If it looked like this on the schematic, would this resolve the issue?
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Re: Frankenso - ECU shield compatible with OEM case / official

Post by russian » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:40 am

Oh, you mean the issue is that on the schematics the labels are visually very confusing? Yes, this would resolve the issue if we put the labels in a less confusing way.
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